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architeuthis

02-26-2007, 12:21 AM

I'm beginning my first (and hopefully last) "mold experiment" today. I have an old 75 count humidor that I'm pumping up to 75-80% RH and around 75 degrees. It's empty at present except for four large flat credo devices brimming with tap-water. Once I get some colonies of mold growing I'm going to add cigars. I've got a decent stock in Don Tomas Maduro Robusto's, so I'll use these as I know what they are supposed to taste like. I'm going to try generating various amounts of mold on the cigars and smoke them to determine how the mold affects the taste. Also I'll be doing some cleaning off of the mold to see if it's successful even after giving birth to a large mold colony. I'm not sure I can create my own green mold that gets into the binder and filler, but I am positive I can reproduce the white fluffy type of mold. I suspect that some of you might want to see PICTURES of this gory deed, as well as get my results reported. I'll keep all the information in this one thread to make it easy to follow.

I have no clue of the time frame this will need, but I'll report as often as there's something to report. Granted I don't have the most refined taste buds on earth (golly, I can't tell the difference between a cigar lit with a $200 torch, a disposable lighter or a cedar stick) but if there's anything in the least noticable I'll be typing it here. I recently got two boxes of these cigars so there'll be enough to keep several "control" groups at various stages of this experiment.

I'm hoping that the results of this will be able to give us all some sort of current real-world standard by which to judge the entire mold issue. There's been everything from rumors, old stogie-smokers tales and casual nonchalance to mild concern, hysteria at the briefest indication of mold and even the mass throwing away of cigars. In any case, besides giving some entertaining and possibly useful information to everybody, I'm pretty durn curious about this myself, not having ever had any mold issues to speak of.

Oh, and if something really nasty happens to me as the result of smoking a cigar that's all green and fuzzy, my wife has instructions to post my final report (but no pics of me as the body in the box) in my absence. :barf:

And before any wise-ass asks, if I kick the bucket during this deal, I *AM* being buried with all my cigars, so NO you can't have them! :bigeyes:

Thanks.

cvm4

02-26-2007, 05:57 AM

Thanks for taking one for the team! Let us know how it goes

Irritech

02-26-2007, 06:05 AM

This ought to be very interesting. IMO this is the biggest threat to cigars these days. We still have the occasional beetle story, but much more about mold. Thinking about it now, I wonder if the new humidi-packs have anything to do with the recent mold outbreak. Probably not, but it sure seems like there has been an increase in mold at the same time there has been an increase in humi-packs.:angryteet

smokey the bear

02-26-2007, 06:31 AM

good luck

AZsteelman

02-26-2007, 07:15 AM

yikes

tobby4

02-26-2007, 09:41 AM

have fun... let us know

architeuthis

02-26-2007, 09:53 AM

have fun... let us know

Fun? FUN??? *F*U*N*?!?!?

This is a SERIOUS experiment! Here I am possibly sacrificing my very LIFE for the cause, and you tell me to "have fun"???

<G>

Just kidding...

MichiganM

02-26-2007, 09:57 AM

Best of luck, keep us updated.

tedski

02-26-2007, 10:04 AM

While I commend your curosity and desire to assist others in this hobby, I'm not sure this is something I'd take lightly. Mold spores can be a very nasty thing when they get into the lungs.

While your chances of something serious happening might be rather small ... this is sort of like purpously standing under a large tree during a thunderstorm.

fredneck

02-26-2007, 10:14 AM

Do you want to make the list for the Darwin Awards?

This is NOT a good idea. If you would like me to pull up some literature for you I can, but take my word for it, breathing in mold spores is a bad, bad idea.

Electric Sheep

02-26-2007, 10:23 AM

Dude, you're in Houston...if you want mold to grow on cigars, just put'em in a box on the front porch. As humid and hot as it is there, you should have mold within days.

j/k :grin:

acaffey

02-26-2007, 10:25 AM

I won't share the whole story with you, but I lived in a shiot apartment in school and there was a serious mold problem resulting from a leaky pipe in the wall. It was behind a bookcase in a bedroon adn my roommate had to throw EVERYTHING away because of the spores. Bedding, clothing, everything. There was even mold found on the inside of his stereo speakers.

I would want to have as much to do with mold as I would a VD.

caudio51

02-26-2007, 11:26 AM

This is very interesting. If you can please take some pictures

Wasch_24

02-26-2007, 12:46 PM

Sounds like this may be a bad idea. :dunno:

caudio51

02-26-2007, 12:50 PM

I was thinking the same thing....mold can be very serious, if not deadly

Electric Sheep

02-26-2007, 12:50 PM

I would want to have as much to do with mold as I would a VD.

Between those two choices, I'd rather have the mold! :sarcastic

architeuthis

02-26-2007, 02:40 PM

Thanks to everybody who has expressed concerns about this. I should have given more detail in my initial post; and since I'm at work I can't take the time to detail it all now. Suffice to say that I am well aware of the possible risks, which is part of the reason for this experiment. I will be running this whole thing for real, complete with professional lab analysis of the mold before I do any smoking of moldy sticks. I just wanted to drop a brief note to thank everybody for their concern and to let you know that I'll give the details after I get home tonight.

Thanks again.

architeuthis

02-27-2007, 08:27 AM

Okay, I'll explain the process now. First off, my first career was Remodeling/Rennovations which I did for 20 years. The last ten years were almost exclusively flood or water damage repairs. Approximately half of the jobs I did required at least testing for toxic mold if not actual toxic mold removal. I have years of first hand experience with mold of all different types, so I do have the ability to make this experiment without being in any real danger of getting my lungs infected.

Secondly, I am doing this all in as controlled an environment as I can manage without the bother of an actual clean-room. This is why I'm growing mold cultures in 4 separate dishes in an otherwise clean empty humidor. (It was suggested that in Houston, leaving cigars just out in the air will sprout mold which is true, but it won't necessarily be a mold that isn't dangerous. Another reason for the control.) When I get the mold going I'll have it tested. If it is the same stuff that we all breathe in Houston every day then ir's safe to inhale when it's on a cigar. After I add the cigars I'll have any mold generated on the cigars tested again to make sure there isn't mold from wherever the cigars were produced that's different from the original. At this point if all checks out it's safe enough to smoke them even in a very fuzzy state.

I will be separating off a few at a time at various stages of mold development and storing them in a much cooler environment to stop the mold from rapid growth. These will be used in the mold cleaning part of the experiment. At each step along the way, if my experience tells me something looks doubtful, I'll have another comparison test run. At any time if a dangerous mold develops I'll report that fact and throw the whole mess away. (I'd not repeat this experiment, so if bad news develops early I'll not have any real data.)

My mold testing will be done by friends at MD Anderson and Texas A&M lab facilities. The testing will be done free since I don't really need detailed analysis and because these friends are also cigar smokers, and interested in this experiment. I'm having each sample tested by both places as a further prevention of any nastiness.

All in all I feel that the worst thing that can happen here is that dangerous mold grows and I throw it all away before any real data is collected. Second worst is that upon success, I get sick to my stomach smoking a moldy stick and throw up a few times. <G> I have enough confidence in my experience and my methodology to do this with just about zero fear of anything harmful happening.

I hope this explanation shows that I'm not really as stupid as I look. :stretchgr

Thanks.

tobby4

02-27-2007, 08:30 AM

Yea, I figured you were bright enough not to smoke toxic mold...

architeuthis

02-27-2007, 08:39 AM

Yea, I figured you were bright enough not to smoke toxic mold...

I had a guy working for me once who hated wearing a full respirator during the tear-out phase of rennovations. He got rather sick and ended up quitting; said it was too dangerous, but like an idiot refused to wear the mask. I'd have fired him if he didn't quit first.

tobby4

02-27-2007, 08:41 AM

people are idiots...

goin' fer smoke

02-27-2007, 08:41 AM

Use your Cremosa's!

goin' fer smoke

02-27-2007, 08:44 AM

Our last house in NJ had mold for walls... no joke... it is a sick site.. I think the whole 2 years living in it I was not well... meaning I ALWAYS had to take naps, felt drained all the time... wasn't that way before and haven't been that way since!

goin' fer smoke

02-27-2007, 08:45 AM

And before anyone chimes in... yes, I am still not "well" in most cases, but I AM healthier!

architeuthis

02-27-2007, 08:52 AM

Use your Cremosa's!

Naw... I'm saving those for when I get the addresses of the people who re-subscribed me to Thompson's etc... <G> I have several boxes of Don Tomas maduro's which I do like and know how they taste. They're also cheap enough that I don't mind using them.

Unless all the people with moldy Anejo Sharks decide to send them all to me.

:smokingbo

jmatkins

02-27-2007, 09:18 AM

I am intrested in this too. I am more intrested in the later, when the cigars have mold and you put them in a colder and less humid box can you get the mold to stop growing and combat it or not. Good luck.

caudio51

03-03-2007, 11:31 AM

Glad to hear you are trained for this, keep us updated

architeuthis

03-07-2007, 10:02 PM

Here's my first update to this after the initial start. I have gotten a large growth of mold on one dish out of four, but that took about a week. To speed up the process a bit, I've used velcro to attach this little humidor to the top of my big-ass monitor. <G> Warms it up nicely. Within a few days the mold spread to a thin covering over the entire interior of the lid. None on the bottom as of yet. Temperatures are around 80 degrees and it's almost foggy inside when I open the lid to check it out. I've not put the cigars in it yet either, as I don't really want them to get all musty tasting, I just want them to get various coverings of mold.

The cigars are divided into four groups of 10 each. One group is considered "baseline" and stays where it's at in my main mold-free humidor. The other three groups are in plastic bags slowly getting exposed to higher humidity. I don't expect to add any cigars to the humidor for another week or so, so there won't be any more news until I'm ready to add the cigars. At that point I'll get samples of the mold tested to determine whether it's acceptable or contains anything nasty. So far all the mold shows almost snowy white, which mostly means non-toxic, but I'll have it tested anyway. As of now, I'd say this is going as planned/expected except I didn't think the lid of the humidor would catch the mold so readily. Should have anticipated it though, as heat rises, so the mold spores most likely went up, stuck to the damp wood and sprouted there.

EDIT:
I changed my mind, and added two cigars right now...

I'll be posting pictures in the same link that's in my signature file. Left the camera at work today or I'd put up a pic of the fuzzy humidor this evening. <G> Maybe when this is over, I'll auction off the fuzzy humidor and all it's contents. Or better still, send it to one of the nice guys who re-registered me with Thompsons...

Wasch_24

03-07-2007, 10:04 PM

"Or better still, send it to one of the nice guys who re-registered me with Thompsons..."

:rofl:

It was NOT mwe dude.

:rofl:

Thanks for the update.

Donk

03-07-2007, 10:05 PM

Keep the updates coming man. This is interesting

kirscovitch

03-07-2007, 10:10 PM

got a kid???? i smell "award winning science project" !!!!!!!

on a more serious note, it is very interesting. just dont get yourself sick or dead....

architeuthis

03-07-2007, 10:18 PM

got a kid???? i smell "award winning science project" !!!!!!!

on a more serious note, it is very interesting. just dont get yourself sick or dead....

No worries. If the tests show any nasty stuff, then I report that result and shut it all down. I hope it works the way I want it to, as I think it's pretty interesting. Having mentioned smell, the humidor smells damp of course, but it still smells fresh like wet Spanish Cedar. Doesn't smell musty yet despite the mold. The mold hasn't reached whatever critical mass is necessary to put off enough gas to negatively effect the eco-system yet. OR... I could just be spouting a line of bull... <G>

kirscovitch

03-07-2007, 10:24 PM

No worries. If the tests show any nasty stuff, then I report that result and shut it all down. I hope it works the way I want it to, as I think it's pretty interesting. Having mentioned smell, the humidor smells damp of course, but it still smells fresh like wet Spanish Cedar. Doesn't smell musty yet despite the mold. The mold hasn't reached whatever critical mass is necessary to put off enough gas to negatively effect the eco-system yet. OR... I could just be spouting a line of bull... <G>

or, the mold has taken over your mind and you just think you're ok..... maybe you are an alien drone... :nodlaugh:

architeuthis

03-15-2007, 12:37 AM

Some further results:

The mold growing in the humidor and the two florist foam flat dishes stabilized and showed no further growth for a few days, so I decided to add the cigars. I put a full twenty into one side of the humidor, (re-wetting the inside first) and shut it back up.

That was Monday the 12th. I couldn't sleep this evening so I opened it to take a peek. All the mold was gone! Almost every little speck of mold that was in that humidor looked to e dead. I don't know if it had enough time to germinate a new batch of spores; if so it might re-grow. But as of now, I'm left with some extremely wet cigars and a musty humidor.

I am somewhat dissapointed, but I'm putting it all back on the shelf and will check again in another week or so.

Irritech

03-15-2007, 02:35 AM

That sucks. :ballbounc

indyrob

03-15-2007, 02:52 AM

Irritech

03-15-2007, 03:00 AM

Check out the brains on Rob. (pulp fiction) :smile:

indyrob

03-15-2007, 03:02 AM

Check out the brains on Rob. (pulp fiction) :smile:
I'm good for 1 brainy thought a day. It looks like I'm spent for the rest of the day today!

architeuthis

03-16-2007, 08:14 PM

Okay, this morning I added a slice of orange and a chunk of cheese to the humidor. Let's see if this doesn't generate some more mold. The cigars are very swelled up and changing shape as they absorb a large excess of water... <G>

Thanks.

djs134

03-16-2007, 08:42 PM

what? they gourmet mold spores?

Donk

03-16-2007, 11:54 PM

Oh yummy! To most people that would sound odd, but I hope it works for you. I want to hear this conclusion.

Rank_Tyro

03-17-2007, 12:13 AM

What kind of cheese? Velveta probably wouldn't be a good choice, I am not really sure that it even qualifies as cheese.......

Irritech

03-17-2007, 04:43 PM

Any way we could see some pics on this project? Just wondering. :sing:

caudio51

03-18-2007, 08:59 AM

mmmmm moldy cheese on cigars

jmatkins

03-18-2007, 09:34 AM

Only mold I like on cheess is on my Blue Cheese, so if there is any I can not tell.

architeuthis

03-21-2007, 07:56 PM

Success at last! I removed the cheese (a tiny piece only) after a day as I was afraid of affecting the flavor of the cigars. The piece of orange began germination of some nice white fluffy mold on the caps of nine out of twenty of the cigars. I'll post pics later this evening when I get home. The humidor smells just a bit musty, but not too bad. After the mold spreads a bit, I'll be separating a few at a time to bring them back down to a realistic RH level. After that, and another test of the mold itself, it'll be about time to give them a smoke test.

Thanks.

Donk

03-21-2007, 08:16 PM

Nice work Bro!

architeuthis

03-21-2007, 08:54 PM

Okay, the pics are up... Look at http://my.inbox.com/photos/architeuthis and choose the folder called Mold Experiment. <G> MMMmmmmm... Don't they look tasty??

Wasch_24

03-21-2007, 09:00 PM

Ack!!!

:rofl:

Wasch_24

03-21-2007, 09:02 PM

Nice album BTW.

jrohrer

03-21-2007, 09:20 PM

:barf:

you actually plan on smoking those???

Electric Sheep

03-21-2007, 09:32 PM

Uhm.....yuk! http://www.botl.org/community/forums/user_pics/1064-1168543324.gif

architeuthis

03-21-2007, 10:11 PM

:barf:

you actually plan on smoking those???

Well, yes... This is what the experiment is all about; to determine ifmold has a detrimental effect on the taste of a cigar and whether it can be removed with no ill effect to said cigar. Now I know these are going to be very musty as they've been in extreme high humidity to get the mold to generate; but once I bring them back to normal RH they should at least be smokeable. I know what this cigar tastes like, as I've had many of them before, so I hope to put factual information out here to help decide the mold question once and for all.

I really don't think this type of experiment has ever been done before, so BoTL will benefit by being the first to see it.

Rank_Tyro

03-21-2007, 10:47 PM

After looking at those photo's I am going to need a good therapist.....

I just hope to the Gods that I never EVER see something like that in my humidor.

architeuthis

03-21-2007, 10:52 PM

After looking at those photo's I am going to need a good therapist.....

I just hope to the Gods that I never EVER see something like that in my humidor.

Did you red this thread from the beginning? It actually was rather difficult to get the mold to grow, and I tried pretty damn hard.

indyrob

03-21-2007, 11:43 PM

architeuthis

03-22-2007, 12:01 AM

Bravo!

If I can offer an idea to the pot of experiments though, cut 1 in half lentgh wise to see how much mold has developed inside the cigar. I'm pretty positive that there might be a secondary type of mold tucked away that will be less hearty than the type that would grow on the outside.

As far as tastes go, I am really interested to read about a head2head re: the moldy and control cigars.

:youarethe

I'll be doing exactly that. Aside from an interesting picture, I need to get the old tested before I smoke any of them.

And I realize the musty taste will probably not go away even after the cigars get back to normal RH, but I can hopefully exclude the "mustiness" from any actual difference in taste between the moldy vs control cigars. We'll see how it all goes.

Electric Sheep

03-22-2007, 08:55 AM

Even if those were the best, rarest cigars in the world, I don't think I'd smoke them with that nast mold growth on them. http://www.botl.org/community/forums/user_pics/1064-1168564626.gif

Donk

03-22-2007, 08:59 AM

What cigars are being used again?

architeuthis

03-22-2007, 09:05 AM

Even if those were the best, rarest cigars in the world, I don't think I'd smoke them with that nast mold growth on them. http://www.botl.org/community/forums/user_pics/1064-1168564626.gif

One part of the experiment (if there's enough sticks with mold on them) is to attempt mold-removal and restoration to smokeable condition. I know this seems weird, but nobody has ever done this type of experimentation or testing before, and I for one want to know what the results are. Maybe I'll find the result to be that at the first sign of mold, throw the cigar away. Maybe I'll find that a cigar can be cleaned effectively and remain smokeable. Maybe something in between these extremes. I won't know until I've tried it.

And the Squid will take all risks for the benefit of BoTL's everywhere!!! <G>

architeuthis

03-22-2007, 09:08 AM

What cigars are being used again?

Don Tomas maduro robusto's. Two boxes total; one as a control group and one to get all moldy.

Donk

03-22-2007, 09:12 AM

So are you going to smoke one, of the molded ones, then bomb people with the rest. Here is a moldgar for ya!! It's good I promise!!:halfgrinw

architeuthis

03-22-2007, 09:39 AM

So are you going to smoke one, of the molded ones, then bomb people with the rest. Here is a moldgar for ya!! It's good I promise!!:halfgrinw

I'd never even consider sending these to anybody, not even as a joke... But I will attempt to smoke them, as well as give my honest appraisal of the taste differences between the moldy and the "control" (read Normal) sticks.

When it's all over, the last experiment will be to clean up a mold-infested humidor. All in all, this will cover a number of bases that all cigar smokers have questions about.

texas_stang

03-22-2007, 10:22 AM

I just looked at the pictures. um Yuck. I hope I never open my humidor and see that.

architeuthis

03-22-2007, 10:27 AM

I just looked at the pictures. um Yuck. I hope I never open my humidor and see that.

You won't have to, as I'm gonna do it for you... <G> And hopfully we'll have some factual answers as to the effects of mold on cigars in a few more weeks.

Squid is happy to take one for the team...

tobby4

03-22-2007, 11:12 AM

eh... those look nasty as hell

architeuthis

03-30-2007, 06:29 AM

As promised, I am keeping up with this and posting reslts as they occur. Right now all humidification has been removed from the moldy cigar humidor. They're going to slowly be brought back to a realistic RH over te next few weeks. The moldy credo dishes have been thrown away. After four days the humidor smells noticeably less musty, but still pretty bad. The mold on the sticks has stopped spreading (at least to external inspection) and also has not died off and disappeared like it did the first time. <G>

Late next week I'll be sending off some more mold samples for testing, and if they're not evil mold, the next phase will probably start the week after that depending on how these sticks dry out.

I'll take and post more pics (including a moldy cigar split in half length-wise) at the time I send off the mold samples for lab testing.

Thanks