WOW New HK 417

[segundo22]

Got to shoot one of these guys at Blackwater today. Went there to teach a class and they were demo'ing the weapon.


Here is the link:

http://www.hk-usa.com/le_hk417_general.html

Better than the M16 and the bolt is cool after firing 500 rounds, it is an engineering mark of genious.

[Rank_Tyro]

That thing looks like alot of fun to shoot!

I always enjoyed shooting the M-16, and considered buying an AR-15 after I got out of the Air Force, but they went and passed that stupid assault rifle ban and all of a sudden it went from $400 bucks to over $1,000 bucks.

What is that pistol looking attachment under the barrel?

[Ratbert]

Very nice-looking rifle! Damn, that would be fun to shoot!

Is the 7.62 in widespread use by NATO? I thought that almost all ammo used by our forces was 5.56.

[cvm4]

Ummm. wow! Looks hella cool

[caudio51]

Well that looks bad ass!

[tobby4]

wow...

[ATCDub]

Those are very impressive. HK makes a very reliable product. I'd like to try out the IMI tavor just for kicks.

[N2Advnture]

That is bad-ass! (I love my AR-15!)

~Mark

[frankluke]

what exactly do you do with a gun like that, hunt , target practice, show it to friends.... seems way over the top to me

[Ratbert]

what exactly do you do with a gun like that, hunt , target practice, show it to friends.... seems way over the top to me

Well, that particular rifle is for law enforcement and military use only. But the popular AR-15 platform, which is similar, is used for all of the reasons you mentioned. Most (but not all) AR-15s fire a smaller round, a .223.

Semi-auto rifles are fun to shoot and are great home defense weapons as well.

[kirscovitch]

semi autos are fun to shoot, but ya cant beat a sawed off 12 gauge for home defense

[Wasch_24]

what exactly do you do with a gun like that, hunt , target practice, show it to friends.... seems way over the top to me
Well, considering he was shooting at a Blackwater facility, my guess would be that it is used to kill bad guys. :grin:

[frankluke]

Well, that particular rifle is for law enforcement and military use only. But the popular AR-15 platform, which is similar, is used for all of the reasons you mentioned. Most (but not all) AR-15s fire a smaller round, a .223.

Semi-auto rifles are fun to shoot and are great home defense weapons as well.

oh, i thought that was to much gun for a civilian to use, thanks for clearing that up..

[ATCDub]

Some might say too much. I say "Just right".

[Texas Cop]

Very nice-looking rifle! Damn, that would be fun to shoot!

Is the 7.62 in widespread use by NATO? I thought that almost all ammo used by our forces was 5.56.



The 416 is the same rifle, and chambered in 5.56mmNATO...And the Army just recently turned it down as a replacement for the M16/M4 :hammersma :hammersma



drew

[Wasch_24]

The 416 is the same rifle, and chambered in 5.56mmNATO...And the Army just recently turned it down as a replacement for the M16/M4 :hammersma :hammersma



drew
Man, going from the M4 carbine to one of those...especially in a 7.62 round...would have been awesome!

[Wasch_24]

That thing looks like alot of fun to shoot!

I always enjoyed shooting the M-16, and considered buying an AR-15 after I got out of the Air Force, but they went and passed that stupid assault rifle ban and all of a sudden it went from $400 bucks to over $1,000 bucks.

What is that pistol looking attachment under the barrel?
I think that pistol looking attachment is actually a grenade launcher.

[segundo22]

It is a 40 mic mic or 40 mm grenade launcher..

Yes, I once did overseas consulting work. We got to carry toys like these. I was there (At Blackwater) teaching a CT (Counter Terrorism) class for a PSD (Personal Security Deployment) team that is taking some business executives to the heart of Iraq.

[segundo22]

The amazing thing about the weapon is that it doesnt kick harder than an Mp5. I was truly amazed at the recoil and on target percentage in fully automatic operation.

[Wasch_24]

Very cool.

[CWS]

Looks like a good LA. carry gun.:riflefire

[BORIStheBLADE]

To bad I live in CA.:rifleaim:

[Texas Cop]

The amazing thing about the weapon is that it doesnt kick harder than an Mp5. I was truly amazed at the recoil and on target percentage in fully automatic operation.



The beauties of a piston driven rifle :rifleaim: :rifleaim: If only the Army coulda solved the HUA problem in time to sign up for a couple thousand of these beauties...I think the price difference between the M4 w/accesories and the 416 w/accesories was less than $100....If am able to break into the private sector post-Army, I will definately be considering one of these bad boys..



drew





drew

[caudio51]

Yea, I don't know the laws at all but I'm pretty sure that is out of the question in Jersey

[tobby4]

that thing is just sick... the more i look at it

[Ratbert]

Yea, I don't know the laws at all but I'm pretty sure that is out of the question in Jersey

I don't believe that Jersey residents are even allowed to look at pictures of rifles like these!

[caudio51]

:rofl:

I think you're right

[Texas Cop]

:rofl:

I think you're right



Quickly now, erase the memories from your head, and wash your eyes out with soap...




drew

[Mississippi Rifleman]

This is HK so saying it rocks, works like a champ, is bad ass is redundant. I love my HKs. The 416 is the ulimate rifle...up there with the Israeli Tavor (http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/tavor/Tavor.html).

The Army is fucking stupid for not getting this weapon. Thank God our Special Operations forces already have them. I think the big draw back is the military wants a larger caliber like the 6.8 Remington or a 6mm round of some sort. .22 caliber just ain't enough umph.

[Texas Cop]

Actually, as far as I know, the Army has abandoned the 6.8 (.270) as well, aside from SOCOM..Barrett developed a rifle, believe it was called the Grendel (though that may have been a different manufacturers name)...Based on the AR design, same general setup, RIS, all the good stuff...It was designed to be a mid-level weapon for your squad level DMs....Pretty good stuff IMO, but again, the Army turned it down...The dropped how many billions into the OICW (or XM8 or Xrifle or whatever you want to call it) project, and got absolutely NOTHING from it. Now they refuse to spend money on proven weapon systems....oh well...That's above my paygrade..For now, I'll scrub my M4 and dream of better days while praying Iran doesn't start feeling froggy...




drew

[Mississippi Rifleman]

Army is known for doing stupid shit. The Grendel was a different caliber in the 6.5 mm range.

www.65grendel.com

Barretts gun was a 6.8 SPC. Fine gun like all Barrett. The Grendel was developed by Alexander Arms. They also made a .50 before that was insanely kick ass called Beowulf.

http://www.alexanderarms.com/

I don't think the OICW was killed, but suspended. Ah well, you never know what will happen. I'm sure you'll get some nice new toys to play with. Being a 19D is fun.

[segundo22]

19D..Calvary Scout... They are ok. Better than 11B (Read cannon fodder.)

Although the only grunts I got to hang with regulalry from the Army were 18Ds and 46Qs. Why we were sent overseas with Army and Navy medics beat the shit out of me.

All in all, i would take an HK over about any other weapon platform out there. Something about the old HK 53 that makes it my favorite weapon. I do like the MP5 in 10mm, but never really got to take it to the field. The 9mm age is coming and going fast. I am on the FN kick. Have the P7 now and a P90 Auto dealer sample coming. Le sigh, I have to take it to 3 LE depts. for test firing. Could be worse things..

[Jwrussell]

HK makes some of the best firearms around. My first fun was an HK USP Compact in .40 and I still love it. I'd have more HK but they price their shit way out of line. The 416/417 is a great weapon system, however there are at least a half dozen others out there that do the same thing just about as well. Further, the 416 (and I assume the 417) are available for civi purchase (semi of course) if you look really, really hard. HOWEVER, HK has gone it's typical route lately of pricing shit so far out of line that almost no one can afford it...that is if I'm right and they are even allowing civi sales on their new toy. From what I've heard, there are uppers (that's just the upper half of the weapon) available, but the cost on them is equal to 2 or 3 fully tricked out AR-15's. Completely ridiculous.

I love their firearms, they know how to make them, but they are way, way too proud of them.

[segundo22]

Ar15s and M16s are what they are. A proven weapon system. The problem is that they get hot, the barrels glow, they hate sand and mud, they just dot take into account new technologies. It is the exact same weapons platform from the 60s and 70s (They have changed a few internal parts such as the bolt, and ejector materials) The awesome thing about this weapon platform for many consultants is the ammo is readily available and you dont fell bad about leaving a magazine behind when you are in the shit.

For the money poney up and get a

http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=35&productid=114

Over an Ar15. You invest a little more money, but I think it iw worth it.

[Jwrussell]

Yeah, the SIG 556 is a beautiful weapon. There are just so many choices coming out for this type of system. SIG 556, Magpul MOSADA, Robinson Arms XCR, just to name the ones that come to mind immediately. I know there are others as well.

I guess I just don't really understand some of the points you were making S. What ammo are you saying is readily available? 7.62 over .223? And what magazines are we talking about that you would feel any less remorse about leaving behind? I'm not saying it's not an awesome weapons system by any means, but there are plenty of other options out there as well.

BTW, did HKPro catch you in any of their photo's of the Blackwater gig?

[Texas Cop]

Army is known for doing stupid shit. The Grendel was a different caliber in the 6.5 mm range.

www.65grendel.com

Barretts gun was a 6.8 SPC. Fine gun like all Barrett. The Grendel was developed by Alexander Arms. They also made a .50 before that was insanely kick ass called Beowulf.

http://www.alexanderarms.com/

I don't think the OICW was killed, but suspended. Ah well, you never know what will happen. I'm sure you'll get some nice new toys to play with. Being a 19D is fun.



Thanks for the clarification there! I'm always getting the 6.5 and 6.8 mixed up...



drew

[Texas Cop]

Yeah, the SIG 556 is a beautiful weapon. There are just so many choices coming out for this type of system. SIG 556, Magpul MOSADA, Robinson Arms XCR, just to name the ones that come to mind immediately. I know there are others as well.

I guess I just don't really understand some of the points you were making S. What ammo are you saying is readily available? 7.62 over .223? And what magazines are we talking about that you would feel any less remorse about leaving behind? I'm not saying it's not an awesome weapons system by any means, but there are plenty of other options out there as well.
<b>
BTW, did HKPro catch you in any of their photo's of the Blackwater gig?</b>

I was wondering if he was talking about the same event they mentioned, I just read their write up a coupla days ago..

As to the mags/ammo being easily found and dumped, I believe he was referring to the M4/M16... .223 ammo is available around the glode, and AR mags are a dime a dozen...I've never really been a fan of Sig weaponry, nothing against them or their product, just a personal dislike..I suppose we are all allowed one of those..

I'm not sure whether the 416/7s will be sold to civilians, or what the price will be, but if it means anything, from what I've read the 416/7 packages that were sold to the government were $100 (believe that's what they said) more than the M4 packages, sooo....Maybe we'll catch a break...

Seg, you're gonna have to bring your P90 over by my place as well, so I can test fire it..Make sure it's safe for you to..uh...yeah..just gotta make sure it's safe :stretchgr



drew

drew

[Jwrussell]

The official word is no, they won't be sold to civi's. To do so, HK would have to build a factory over here to build them. THat being said, they are still finding their hands into some civi's hands. At anywhere from $3K-5K. For the upper ALONE. From what I understand the actual resale on them for a LE and such would be around $1200. Still pricey for an AR style railed upper, but not ridiculous (though you can pick up an S&W M&P15T for that amount).

If you are right, then yeah I get what he was saying, I thought he was talking about the HK 417 system (7.62).

I was at the range a while back while a guy was running an auto P90 (regular barrel, not the long civi one). Cool as shit.

[segundo22]

Ya .223 ammo and mage are like dirt cheap. You can also get them anywhere.

I was there with HKPro, not sure if I am in any pictures though, there were a ton being taken. There are arms expos there that are not advertised and shooters get together to look stuff over.

Lots of shooters from Blackwater and SOS there. I have worked for both in the past. Its a lot of fun, but what is more fun is at the bars at night getting a bunch of SF operators drunk and try and out do one another.

[Jwrussell]

Ahh, ok, I hear ya now. Of course, I wish .223/5.56 ammo reall was "dirt cheap and available" right now in the civi world. The pricing for the good stuff (mostly surplus) has been going through the roof. Hell, even Wolf is almost $200/1K right now.