What makes a premium?

[Smurf]

So... I was thinking, being a noobie and all, and thus being cautious about entering into trading and things like that...

I was wondering... what really makes a premium... I mean... sure, you can pay 20+ for a cigar, and I am sure its unanimous considered premiuim...

but then lets talk a more difficult, but possibly more common cigar area... lets say
5-10$ smokes.

How much consideration is given to the age of a cigar... thereofore being more difficult to get?

How much is in a name.... Perhaps a review or rating?

Is a rare cigar still sought even if it's considered to be not that great... or even a failure....

then look at something like a CAO vision, rare supposidly... but the opinions of it are generally mediocre....

if you can get something easily online... a sampler maybe... is that the same as collecting singles from your local shops and such... perhaps those cigars are in samplers because they are second to the ones in boxes? Leftovers or something?

I don't know... I was just thinking to myself... trying to evaluate my budding cigar collection, and trying to come up with ways of valuing it besides just the sticker price i paid for a smoke.

[cvm4]

Premium = hand rolled + no mixed or short filler tobacco

ultra premium = rarity/price/mystique, etc.

[jmatkins]

:yes: Premium = hand rolled + no mixed or short filler tobacco

ultra premium = rarity/price/mystique, etc.

[BradMc]

Well said Cliff..............

[no_substitute]

+ marketing

[Altercall]

When talking about age, the number I've always heard is 10% compounded per year. Although, that's also for "certain" sticks!

[dpricenator]

if you can get something easily online... a sampler maybe... is that the same as collecting singles from your local shops and such... perhaps those cigars are in samplers because they are second to the ones in boxes? Leftovers or something?
.


Th only difference here is that depending on the traffic at your local shop, you might get a cigar that has been sitting for a while. The guys at my b&m showed me a box of Don Tomas Cammy thatwere a year old, just because they were in the corner. I grabbed a couple and they were a little smotter than any I had had before. Otherwise, singles is singles. The "2nds" you speak of generally are sold as such.

[smokem94]

This is why I got out of things like the lottery and the birthday club........I think the definition is to vague to include any and all hand made cigars. I consider premium expensive , hard to get smokes, allthough I know there are some good ones out there that are not.

[cvm4]

+ marketing

That goes under the "mystique" category :grin:

[MichiganM]

Sometimes what makes a premium is an opinion on one...and this hobby is very biased and opinion based. The value of your collection sometimes cannot be determined by a sticker price. It's all relative.

[TexaSmoke]

This is why I got out of things like the lottery and the birthday club........I think the definition is to vague to include any and all hand made cigars. I consider premium expensive , hard to get smokes, allthough I know there are some good ones out there that are not.

I agree, because when I deal with cigar, I'm only thinking of hand rolled cigars. Therefore is the cigar is rare and how much it cost really makes it premium or not. There is a difference between a RP Sungrown which is a good cigar that can be found anywhere for around $6 and a Pardon 1926 or and Opus X. When most people/place call a cigar premium, they normally mean hand rolled, long filler cigars. To me that is like saying that a wine is premium if it is made from grapes.

[Smurf]

I agree, because when I deal with cigar, I'm only thinking of hand rolled cigars. Therefore is the cigar is rare and how much it cost really makes it premium or not. There is a difference between a RP Sungrown which is a good cigar that can be found anywhere for around $6 and a Pardon 1926 or and Opus X. When most people/place call a cigar premium, they normally mean hand rolled, long filler cigars. To me that is like saying that a wine is premium if it is made from grapes.

I agree, that is were I think there is a problem...
It can't simply be "hand rolled", thats too vague and kind of useless info.

You assume that already when talking premium i would think.

[architeuthis]

If an Opus X is considered a Premium Cigar, I'd prefer a fistful of 5 year old Camaco Diploma's.. Same goes for anything where there is a "perceived scarcity" simply to drive a price-point. Squid® will almost never smoke a Greycliff... <G>

[jmatkins]

If an Opus X is considered a Premium Cigar, I'd prefer a fistful of 5 year old Camaco Diploma's.. Same goes for anything where there is a "perceived scarcity" simply to drive a price-point. Squid® will almost never smoke a Greycliff... <G>

Come to think of it I have never had a Graycliff. <G>

[TexaSmoke]

Come to think of it I have never had a Graycliff. <G>

I have a few I got off of Cbid for real cheap, but most of them suck.

[GoneDave]

I was reading this and all the sudden I find out that I dont smoke Greycliff either.:hysterica . but I am bumping this up to get more replies as there is a consensus forming so to see maybe if there can be a set standard or if like coins its all debatable always?:peace:

[Panicbound]

Both of you send me your addy and I will send you a couple to sample...........

[jwintosh]

don't do it! he hits hard!!

[WhiteLightning]

don't do it! he hits hard!!

Yes he does.

[Garvey]

I always thought it was pricepoint, then was told when speaking of premium, just think what was said earlier: Premium = hand rolled + no mixed or short filler tobacco. Ultra-premium = price & rarity.

But perhaps the definition has shifted?

[Fox]

I always thought it was pricepoint, then was told when speaking of premium, just think what was said earlier: Premium = hand rolled + no mixed or short filler tobacco. Ultra-premium = price & rarity.

But perhaps the definition has shifted?

I do not think it has shifted. The problem is that there will never be a consensus on this one. On the pricing side the market is horribly skewed by artificially restricted supply; examples: Padron Anniversario & 1926, Opus-X, AF Hemingway, etc. As others already pointed out the price point and scarcity are often the driving factors among buyers of premiums and ultra-premiums. And, what one considers a super premium another will not smoke. Just because a smoke is artificially restricted to drive a price point does not make it a premium smoke, IMHO. It still must have superior quality at a price point which I consider a good value and that will always be a subjective exercise.

To illustrate my point, I do not like Opus and find them extremely over-priced and inferior to other smokes. There are many cigars at ½ the price that I think are vastly superior to this line, ditto the 1926 since I find it inferior to the Anniversario (1964). However, the market positioning is such that many buyers are "price sensitive" in that they have a perception that the super premium must reach a certain price threshold. Couple that with subjectivity and personal preference when selecting a smoke and you lose consensus. What that means is that if I am trading with a brother who places high value on the aforementioned cigars, we are not going to be able to deal. While the general market may consider those cigars super premiums, I do not, thus, no deal.

[Panicbound]

don't do it! he hits hard!!

At least I don't hit like a girl:rolling:

[MichiganM]

I do not think it has shifted. The problem is that there will never be a consensus on this one. On the pricing side the market is horribly skewed by artificially restricted supply; examples: Padron Anniversario & 1926, Opus-X, AF Hemingway, etc. As others already pointed out the price point and scarcity are often the driving factors among buyers of premiums and ultra-premiums. And, what one considers a super premium another will not smoke. Just because a smoke is artificially restricted to drive a price point does not make it a premium smoke, IMHO. It still must have superior quality at a price point which I consider a good value and that will always be a subjective exercise.

To illustrate my point, I do not like Opus and find them extremely over-priced and inferior to other smokes. There are many cigars at ½ the price that I think are vastly superior to this line, ditto the 1926 since I find it inferior to the Anniversario (1964). However, the market positioning is such that many buyers are "price sensitive" in that they have a perception that the super premium must reach a certain price threshold. Couple that with subjectivity and personal preference when selecting a smoke and you lose consensus. What that means is that if I am trading with a brother who places high value on the aforementioned cigars, we are not going to be able to deal. While the general market may consider those cigars super premiums, I do not, thus, no deal.



About as well said as it gets!

:thumbsup:

[sarnone]

Graycliff espresso and Double Espresso....I guess that's 5 words. I have smoked the red , blue and white label and did not care one iota for them. These espressos are the SH*#, as my son would say. That actually is a good thing. Have you tried these?