Lets talk cigars or Wonderin about Wrapper Leaf

[oneaday]

Most of you know I've been smokin cigars for quite some time and over the years I've had numerous discussions with different folks about how much the wrapper adds to the flavor profile of a cigar. Seen guys argue till one was red in the face and the other was blue. I could never figure a way to determine the percentage a wrapper adds to the overall flavor. To tell the truth I didn't much care as long as the cigar I was puffing on had one. Which brings me to my point.
I repair wrappers when needed and this morning I repaired a wrapper I had split being overly aggressive with a draw poker. I usually try to match the wrapper with the repair piece, this morning, slightly agitated and a little late I did a quick job of the repair. The cigar was a claro wrapper and I fixed it with a dark Colorado piece. Tonight as I was smoking the darn thing enjoying the normal profile, it started to change as I reached the repair. Subtle at first, just a tiny hint of spice increasing until got past the repair and finally disappearing after the repair piece was gone. The flavor was what you would expect before and after. The split was approx. 1/2" and the repair piece was slightly larger. I am having a difficult time believing a tiny piece of tobacco could alter the flavor of a cigar that much. I know this will lead to me doing some nutty experiment this weekend. Before I ruin a couple of perfectly good cigars, I will put it to everyone here. Boys tell me what you think and why.......can a tiny piece of tobacco sealing a split change the flavor of a stick? If that's possible how much of the profile is the wrapper responsible for?
Or am I entering into the initial stages of dementia and should I order a F'n drool cup instead of the Monte 2s???

[dpricenator]

go ahead and buy the drool cup, then send all the Monte 2's to me. as far as the wrapper, I had a smoke the other day, while driving. I ashed it out the window (jwintosh hates that) doing about 80mph. the breeze, yanked a section of wrapper right off the midle of a hemingway best seller. pissed me off to no end, and it was weird the top third stayed on. the smke changed dramaticly for the inch or so where the wrapper was missing.

Also isn't there a 4 pack sampler that is the exact same filler and binder with all different wrappers? that would at least show you the difference the wrappers make

[Halon]

Also isn't there a 4 pack sampler that is the exact same filler and binder with all different wrappers? that would at least show you the difference the wrappers make
La Aurora does that with their 100 Anos robustos.
You can get Connecticut, Brazilian, Corojo, and something else, I think. It's pretty cool, and the Brazilian one is the best.

I would put the percentage of influence a wrapper has on a cigar's flavor from around 30% to upwards of 65%. An example of the 30% would be a very large ring gauge cigar, maybe a LGC Serie R or pretty much any of the CAO sticks, and a 65% could be a lancero, like the Casa Torano Maduro lancero. That dark, Connecticut broadleaf wrapper is one of the tastiest wrappers on the market right now, and the lancero is worlds better than the larger sizes!

So I believe that wrapper percentage varies from cigar to cigar, but it always has a large influence. From talking to regular people at my B&M, wrappers generally have much more influence than most people think (which, from my experience, has been around 10-15%).
A cool way to find out is to smoke cigars from the same line that have the same blend. See what tastes you find different in larger and smaller ring gauges. Some may like the influence a wrapper has, and some may not. It's all about the smoker's preference.


TYLER

[Altercall]

I've always thought, and heard, that it's somewhere between %50 anf %75. I'd definitely go more than %50, though. A buddy of mine did an experiment this way... Take a cigar and a razor blade. Remove a couple of patches of the wrapper all the way around the cigar. One toward the foot and one toward the head. Try to make them 1" at least depending on the size. This way you'll have about the same amount of wrapper as not.

The reason I like that approach is because of the incredible inconsistency of cigars out there. We've all heard the saying, "The best and worst cigars you'll ever smoke are sitting next to each other in that box," and that can be true. This way, even though the cigar will naturally change as it burns, you have a couple of benchmarks to compare the wrapperless portion to.

Just an idea.

[Altercall]

La Aurora does that with their 100 Anos robustos.
You can get Connecticut, Brazilian, Corojo, and something else, I think. It's pretty cool, and the Brazilian one is the best.
TYLER

It's actually the 1495s. My B&M has them all and has a little sampler bundled together with them.

[tubaman]

The wrapper most definatly has a significant affect on the flavor of a cigar. I don't know about a percent, but it's significant. They ain't just purdy!!

[elderboy02]

Interesting thread! I didn't know the wrapper had that much influence on the taste.

[bballbaby]

It's actually the 1495s. My B&M has them all and has a little sampler bundled together with them.

I had a 1495 connecticut just 2 nihgts ago and i went into it thinking i wasn't going to like it based on the super light coloring of the wrapper...boy was i wrong. I'm quickly becoming a La Aurora whore. I could taste that familiar aurora flavor in it, but that wrapper made a huge difference in the overall flavor.

I would have to believe that the wrapper plays a huge part, easily 50% on normla cigars, and like Tyler said, even more so on lanceros. That's what i'm loving about lanceros; you can get a feel for what the wrpper tastes like since there's so little filler and so much wrapper. There's a pretty good artical about them in this months CA.

Also consider this, when makers are marketing their cigars, they put a lot of emphasis on the wrapper. Sure they mention the tobaccos used in the in filler and binder, but lool at the descriptive words they use for the wrapper. Pick up the altest issue of CI's magazine and you'll see what i mean.

[Mitch]

I'm with the vote of the huge difference. I love the La Aurora Perferedos, but only the Camroon!

[Rich K]

The wrapper definitely has a significant influence.

That said, I wonder if the burn is affected by repairs that are made -- maybe it's burning a little hotter because the repair isn't perfect, maybe the burn changes in some other way. But I wonder if that changes the flavor. Couldn't tell you for sure, never having repaired a cigar in the way you're describing. Any thoughts?

[Mitch]

The wrapper definitely has a significant influence.

That said, I wonder if the burn is affected by repairs that are made -- maybe it's burning a little hotter because the repair isn't perfect, maybe the burn changes in some other way. But I wonder if that changes the flavor. Couldn't tell you for sure, never having repaired a cigar in the way you're describing. Any thoughts?

I don't think the burn changes that much of the flavor. I've smoked plenty of "flutes" over the years and although it changes the draw if you don't fix the holes, it dosn't change the flavor any that I've noticed.

[Volusianator]

I've always guessed at around 70%

[Dogwatch Dale]

As with many other things "cigar", my opinion is that it depends..... One of these days maybe we'll come up with a scientific way to determine, but my experience is that over a mild filler blend, the wrapper can make a huge difference in the flavor. Over a blend heavy with ligero, you may not notice hardly any difference between wrappers. In general though, I agree that wrappers usually contribute a dis-proportionate amount of flavor compared to their percentage of volume in the total blend. I think that's why I have gravitated to corona and lancero vitolas more as they have a higher percentage of wrapper leaf compared to larger ring sticks. Either that or I'm just nucking futty!
I look forward to hearing the results of your "nutty experiments" Ken! I may have to do some surgery myself and test some combinations.......

[CWS]

Good question Ken. ALl I know is I loved Gurkha regents and when they came out with one with I believe a corjo wapper, the nepalese or something, I hated it. The guy at CI swears it is the same stick with a different wrapper. I'm convinced.

[StogieHokie]

Ive seen people take an inch of the wrapper off the foot of a cigar with a razor blade so that they can taste the difference but have never tried it myself. Something about disassembling a perfectly good cigar makes me twinge. Theres always the Gurkha shaggy though.

[StogieHokie]

^^Sweet I just noticed I made petite corona! Guess 100 post goes faster than I thought. Seems like a days work for some of you though :grin:

[jwintosh]

nice reading!! i have lost wrappers completely while at the river in the 100+ weather, which gave it a most definite different profile. i have never repaired a cigar,,, just smoked them w/the split! LMK how your expirements go!!

[SGT13]

nice reading!! i have lost wrappers completely while at the river in the 100+ weather, which gave it a most definite different profile. i have never repaired a cigar,,, just smoked them w/the split! LMK how your expirements go!!

:smokingbo I've done the same thing. Had no idea you can repair them. Where the HELL do buy patch wrapper, wrap patchers, whatever the hell:riflefire

Sarge

[dpricenator]

:smokingbo I've done the same thing. Had no idea you can repair them. Where the HELL do buy patch wrapper, wrap patchers, whatever the hell:riflefire

Sarge

I use old dog rockets for small patches, and zigzags for larger ones. Zigzaga are rice paper and have very lttle flavor. I use El Torcedor for the glue. It is the same stuff the rollers use for the caps, it comes in a little nailpolish bottle with a little brush to put it on. Works good.

[oneaday]

:smokingbo I've done the same thing. Had no idea you can repair them. Where the HELL do buy patch wrapper, wrap patchers, whatever the hell:riflefire

Sarge

:rofl:

Plugs I can't fix mostly, instead of tossing them I pull the wrapper off and put in in a box in the cabinet and cut a small piece off when I need it. works pretty good on runs as well. I use Torcedor glue just like Dave describes. Let it dry and it's good to go. The thing that amazed me was the tiny amount of tobacco that changed the profile to one of my go to smokes.
I'm on vacation for a week starting Friday going to Cabo and will take a few sacrificial lambs with me for the experiments.

[Halon]

A lot of times if you have a plugged cigar you can cut it in half and both pieces will be perfectly smokeable. It is common for the filler to be "twisted", if you will, which makes for a near-impossible draw, but cutting the cigar in half will often times fix the problem.
Something to try on your next plugged cigar.


TYLER

[bballbaby]

I use old dog rockets for small patches, and zigzags for larger ones. Zigzaga are rice paper and have very lttle flavor. I use El Torcedor for the glue. It is the same stuff the rollers use for the caps, it comes in a little nailpolish bottle with a little brush to put it on. Works good.

Dave, would those zigzags be 1 1/4" or 1 1/2"? :smokingco

I myself am a Joker kinda guy. :bouncetau

[oneaday]

A lot of times if you have a plugged cigar you can cut it in half and both pieces will be perfectly smokeable. It is common for the filler to be "twisted", if you will, which makes for a near-impossible draw, but cutting the cigar in half will often times fix the problem.
Something to try on your next plugged cigar.


TYLER


Good Lord, almost 40 years of smokin hand rolled cigars and that is the first time I've heard that. I will try it with the next unfixable plug I come across. Thanks Tyler.

[Trumpetchris]

As far as % of overall flavor, I think the ring gauge has a lot to do with it. A lancero, for example will have a higher % of flavor coming from the wrapper as opposed to a robusto. I also agree with Dale, that a high ligero smoke may cover up some of the flavors you'd get from the wrapper. (probably why most of the "powerhouse" smokes don't have a pristine looking wrapper- they're using the big dollar wrappers on the smokes you'd notice the flavor in).

Good advice on patches and plugged cigars.

[jmatkins]

A lot of times if you have a plugged cigar you can cut it in half and both pieces will be perfectly smokeable. It is common for the filler to be "twisted", if you will, which makes for a near-impossible draw, but cutting the cigar in half will often times fix the problem.
Something to try on your next plugged cigar.


TYLER

Yea thanks, as well I will give a try with the next one I come across.

[Halon]

No prob guys! I actually picked that bit up when I had a couple smokes with Mitchell Orchant. Sure enough, the first plugged cigar I ran into back home I tried that on and it worked!
What happens is that, when the filler is twisted inside the cigar like a corkscrew, punching holes in it doesn't help, but cutting it in half can un-twist the filler and make both halves perfectly smokeable!


TYLER

[Angry Bill]

That's some good info Tyler. Nice going!

[CWS]

No prob guys! I actually picked that bit up when I had a couple smokes with Mitchell Orchant. Sure enough, the first plugged cigar I ran into back home I tried that on and it worked!
What happens is that, when the filler is twisted inside the cigar like a corkscrew, punching holes in it doesn't help, but cutting it in half can un-twist the filler and make both halves perfectly smokeable!


TYLER

Well I'll be. Great idea Tyler.:skew:

[jmatkins]

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/proddisp.asp?item=SP-WWASST5&stext=ying&/catalog_cigars/ci200807/custom/Redirect.aspx?rfx_spread=2&rfx_gid=196613&rfx_pageid=2&rfx_catalog=1&rfx_passback=&rfx_base=http%3A//cigars.richfx.com.edgesuite.net/catalog_cigars/ci200807/&rfx_catalog_base=http%3A//cigars.richfx.com.edgesuite.net/catalog_cigars/ci200807/index.aspx%3F&rfx_omni=1&rfx_OmniPageName=p2-3&rfx_OmniCatalogName=ci200807&rfx_OmniClientID=mjcpenney&rfx_page=2&RFX_PassBack=&rfx_catalogname=ci200807&rfx_catalog=1&

OK here is aCAO cigar that could be tested in this way. It might be your first decesion but it might give an idea on how much a wrapper can influence the cigar.

[SGT13]

I use old dog rockets for small patches, and zigzags for larger ones. Zigzaga are rice paper and have very lttle flavor. I use El Torcedor for the glue. It is the same stuff the rollers use for the caps, it comes in a little nailpolish bottle with a little brush to put it on. Works good.

Very cool. Thanks for the info. I'll have to get me some of that glue. So, no one packages small pieces of connetticut wrap for fixin'?:smokingbo