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ChazHollywood
01-06-2011, 05:07 PM
In case anyone missed it in the news today...

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/01/06/autism-vaccine-fraud/

-Charles

danthebugman
01-06-2011, 05:24 PM
Yeah saw it on Yahoo last night...can't help but shake my head in disgust. Perhaps they were asleep on the day ethics were discussed.

Dan

Asher
01-06-2011, 05:25 PM
http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/

danthebugman
01-06-2011, 05:29 PM
http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/

When idiots with status run their mouths :angeryell.

Dan

jayro75
01-06-2011, 06:07 PM
When idiots with status run their mouths :angeryell.

Dan

Status or fake tits and tight ass?

dpricenator
01-06-2011, 06:11 PM
http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/

Q: Who are you?

A: My name is Derek Bartholomaus and I work professionally in the Entertainment Industry as a Post Production Supervisor/Producer on various television programs. I am a member of the Independent Investigations Group and I am the Lead Investigator into the IIG Billy Meier Investigation. I am also the creator of the Conservative Truths website (currently on hiatus until January 2012) which uses Census Bureau Statistical Reports to compare the differences between Conservative and Liberal Presidencies and Conservative and Liberal States.


this guy lists tables with botulism, tetanus as well as other diseases we are not regularly vaccinated against as an infant. While these may be preventable deaths the vaccines were not part of the vaccine campaign, the parents of autistic children, were working on.

My problem with this site is it uses sensationalism to make a point. Jenny never said don't give you kid a tetanus shot at age 5. It is the increased vaccination schedule we have seen in the past 30 years as HMOs try to save money on Dr's visits.


For me, the bottom line is my autistic son has an abnormal amount of mercury in his system. Autism and acute mercury poisoning have the same symptoms in case you are wondering why I'm saying this. Can I guarantee where he got that? NO. But I do know, he got a huge barrage of shots at 9 months of age, and was never the same. Over night change. Maybe it was just a coincidence and had nothing to do with the vaccines. I do know the vaccines he received were full of thiomersal, which contains a shit ton of mercury. More than I would want administered to my 260 lb frame much less that of an infant. California and most of the USA and EUR are stopping or have stopped using vaccines that contain this preservative. Why? If it's not causing problems why remove it?

Do any of us really trust a multi trillion dollar industry?

Science is field that exiles anyone who is going against the herd. You better not get caught saying everyone else is wrong, or they will make sure you are discredited. I never thought mainstream science was ever going to say, oops, sorry, we made a mistake. And to think a Dr that stood up against the mainstream, would be discredited is not that far fetched. He's just collateral damage.

yeah I am bummed, I wanted to know why my kid, at age 6, still can not speak and rarely understands or comprehends what I am saying. I want someone to blame, and so do all parents with children who have disabilities. With this news, the search down this avenue of treatment will be blocked. I will still bet we see a linear decline in autism cases as we get further removed from the inclusion of thiomersal as a preservative in our children's vaccines. It was never the vaccine, it was the preservative. At least that was the argument.

dpricenator
01-06-2011, 06:13 PM
Just because it is in the news does not make it the truth. on either side of the coin.

r3db4r0n
01-06-2011, 06:17 PM
Status or fake tits and tight ass?

Status because of fake tits and tight ass :P

Was this study not peer reviewed when it was originally published?

e-man67
01-06-2011, 07:32 PM
It sucks..and we probably never know the real truth. I still get my kids vacinated.

orangedog
01-06-2011, 08:07 PM
It sucks..and we probably never know the real truth. I still get my kids vacinated.

The article claims (and I have heard before) that vaccination rates have dropped and "not fully recovered". If I had to guess, I would also think that the influx of immigrants without vaccines has increased (not a knock against immigrants, just realistically thinking of people coming from countries that maybe aren't developed nations). Therefore, the percentage of people without vaccines should have increased over some period of recent time.

It would be interesting to see a study done in the future of the rate of (or per capita) cases of diseases that the vaccines were designed to treat. Compare that to the period before the study was released when vaccine rates were higher.

That is probably the best way to know.

As dprice mentioned... if it is just one ingredient of the vaccine, hopefully that is rectified for future use.

Saddening that "science" has this element...

L8A
01-06-2011, 08:10 PM
What an idiot!

njstone
01-06-2011, 08:36 PM
There are a couple REAL things at issue here:

1) Cases of Autism have increased by over 500% in the last decade or so ... something is causing this epidemic
2) Prior to this guys "study," it was widespread for vaccines to contain traces of toxic heavy metals, specifically mercury.
3) Mercury has been proven to be bad for brain development, and although it has only been coincidentally linked to Autism many doctors believe the link may be causal.
4) Since this "study," nearly all manufacturers of vaccines have now eliminated ALL toxins from their vaccines.

In my opinion, and the opinion of most pediatricians I've spoken to, this direct end result is VERY good for children. Even if the original study was bogus, at least the direct end result was to make healthier vaccines.

Of course, many claim that an indirect end result was that less children are being vaccinated, which from a public health standpoint is bad. But frankly, I think that the number of people who opted to NOT vaccinate their children directly because of this study are fairly low. There are many reasons people choose not to vaccinate, not least of which is the slight chance that their child could contract the disease because of the vaccine itself.

Our Choice:
When it came time to choose to vaccinate our son, we chose NOT TO at the time, but to wait an extra year to start most of his vaccinations (he has them all now, at 3). This was because our son has a blood relative (1st cousin) with Autism, and his mother (my wife) has a learning disability, making our son's statistical likelihood of developing a developmental disability highly increased.

We decided that his likelihood of getting Mumps was ridiculously low compared to the fear of something worse like Autism, so we put off the vaccines. I don't regret that decision.

njstone
01-06-2011, 09:16 PM
Saddening that "science" has this element...

Yes, and it always will. Just think briefly about the history of science. For a long period of time, scientists knew the earth was flat, and the center of the solar system. For most of science's history, science knew that heavier-than-air flight was completely impossible. Scientists knew that the speed of light was constant. Scientists knew that man evolved linearly from apes. Scientists knew that trans-locational causes could not have local effects. Scientists knew for a long time that time was a constant.

Scientist now know differently.

What's my point? Do not put your faith in science. It is ever changing, ever re-evaluating and re-understanding the universe ... as it should. Many scientists are humble enough to say "This is how we understand things today," but some are so prideful as to state categorically "This is how it is, period." The latter are usually disproven as their field of science improves.

Sometimes it takes "science" hundreds of years to change it's mind, sometimes it takes weeks. Just look up the stance on caffeine over the last 20 years. "It's good for you," It's bad for you," "It's good for some people," "It will give you cancer," "It improves brain function for certain things and reduces it for others," "It causes cardiovascular decay," etc. etc. I stopped keeping up with the studies after a while.

orangedog
01-06-2011, 09:33 PM
Yes, and it always will. Just think briefly about the history of science. For a long period of time, scientists knew the earth was flat, and the center of the solar system. For most of science's history, science knew that heavier-than-air flight was completely impossible. Scientists knew that the speed of light was constant. Scientists knew that man evolved linearly from apes. Scientists knew that trans-locational causes could not have local effects. Scientists knew for a long time that time was a constant.

Scientist now know differently.

What's my point? Do not put your faith in science. It is ever changing, ever re-evaluating and re-understanding the universe ... as it should. Many scientists are humble enough to say "This is how we understand things today," but some are so prideful as to state categorically "This is how it is, period." The latter are usually disproven as their field of science improves.

Sometimes it takes "science" hundreds of years to change it's mind, sometimes it takes weeks. Just look up the stance on caffeine over the last 20 years. "It's good for you," It's bad for you," "It's good for some people," "It will give you cancer," "It improves brain function for certain things and reduces it for others," "It causes cardiovascular decay," etc. etc. I stopped keeping up with the studies after a while.

True, although I maintain a distinction between inaccuracy and unethical methodology.

Your point would still be appropriate, though.

njstone
01-06-2011, 09:40 PM
True, although I maintain a distinction between inaccuracy and unethical methodology.


Certainly. And although I'm no conspiracy theorist, I have to admit that it's highly unlikely that the US Government would admit it if the additives in the vaccines were actually a factor in those cases of Autism. Any Surgeon General worth their salt would ... correctly ... risk life in prison by lying about it.

If the vaccines were at fault, and everyone knew it, people would stop getting their children vaccinated--even though the problems have been corrected. This would lead to multiple epidemics and thousands of children, elderly, and immune-compromised citizens dying, to say the least. If there is a cover-up, it's one some people might concur with, "for the greater good" as they say.

Doctors and scientists make mistakes all time time. That's just the nature of the field. People just have to understand that there is no such thing as a valid "Promise of safety."

Asher
01-06-2011, 09:47 PM
Scientists knew that the speed of light was constant.

Just to nitpick: scientists still know this. The speed of light in a vacuum is still a constant. Light travels at different speeds in different mediums (hence why a prism can produce a rainbow), but this was known at least as far back as Newton.

ChazHollywood
01-06-2011, 10:49 PM
What's my point? Do not put your faith in science. It is ever changing, ever re-evaluating and re-understanding the universe ... as it should. Many scientists are humble enough to say "This is how we understand things today," but some are so prideful as to state categorically "This is how it is, period." The latter are usually disproven as their field of science improves.


Dude, before I say anything else I want you to know that I agree with almost everything you've said so far, and I really respect that you've thought things through and decided what was right for your family instead of just listening to some celebrity with a theory well outside her field, based entirely on one data point and a bunch of conjecture.

I think a big problem we're having right now is that science is misunderstood by a lot of people on a very fundamental level. Science is the collected body of everything we understand so far, and a process for updating and refining it. Sure a lot of it is wrong. A lot of it is right, too or at least right enough to be of practical use.

In my day to day life I see going with the scientific consensus like raising with pocket aces. Will you win every time? Of course not, but it's still the best move in the circumstance[1]. Besides, in some matters it's not just the best we have, it's quite literally all we have to go on.

-Charles

1. Before taking my metaphor to the card table, I should warn you that I'm a lousy poker player.

orangedog
01-06-2011, 10:52 PM
Just to nitpick: scientists still know this. The speed of light in a vacuum is still a constant. Light travels at different speeds in different mediums (hence why a prism can produce a rainbow), but this was known at least as far back as Newton.

relativity?

ChazHollywood
01-06-2011, 10:55 PM
Just to nitpick: scientists still know this. The speed of light in a vacuum is still a constant. Light travels at different speeds in different mediums (hence why a prism can produce a rainbow), but this was known at least as far back as Newton.

I believe the idea that the speed of light is constant regardless of the observer is actually relatively recent. The reason the idea was very hard to swallow is because the consequence is non-constant time!

nitpick^2!! :) :eyepoke: :)

-Charles

Treinenwj
01-06-2011, 10:58 PM
Wow, less than 20 posts and this thread has gone from autism to the theory of relativity.

strife
01-07-2011, 06:21 AM
So long as peoples livelihoods are dependent upon grants from governments and corporations the subjectivity should be in question. Why is it that we put the scientists above all others and bow to their words as if they're friggin Jedi when every few years most of what they've claimed as fact is disproven.

smokinghole
01-07-2011, 06:58 AM
I don't know about you guys but I take EVERYTHING I read with a grain of salt. Science and medicine has been wrong through out history. Especially when it comes to new theories concerning something that was not previously a problem or previously thought about. So It'll probably take another 20 years for them to figure out what the TRUE cause of Autism if someone actually spends to money to investigate it using objective scientific means.

The problem I have with science is that too often the science seems to be done backwards. Instead of forming a hypothesis and then performing an experiment and reforming the hypothesis based on results. Some science, especially when linked to public policy, seems to form a conclusion and then set out to design their experiments to prove said conclusion. Current smoking studies are a great example of that.

I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist though and don't trust our government. I bet they're reading what I posted right now.....

Greg
01-07-2011, 07:52 AM
The Lancet (the journal where the study was first published) retracted that paper last year on ethical grounds.

“Following the judgment of the UK General Medical Council’s Fitness to Practise Panel on Jan 28, 2010, it has become clear that several elements of the 1998 paper by Wakefield et al are incorrect, contrary to the findings of an earlier investigation.

“In particular, the claims in the original paper that children were ‘consecutively referred’ and that investigations were ‘approved’ by the local ethics committee have been proven to be false. Therefore we fully retract this paper from the published record.”

http://www.bmj.com/content/340/bmj.c696.long

I guess now they found that the paper was fraudulent.

messerjocke2000
01-07-2011, 04:52 PM
There are a couple REAL things at issue here:

1) Cases of Autism have increased by over 500% in the last decade or so ... something is causing this epidemic

Which may not actually be an epidemic...
The number of diagnosed cases rose, which may be due to a rise in incidents, a widening of the definition of Autism....

CWS
01-08-2011, 09:02 AM
Sorry. Most of you have never had the mumps or measles. This is because your parents watched children die of these diseases and when a vaccine was created they rushed to innoculate you. Many of you are alive due to these drugs. But ah we forget. When you don't see the epidemic numbers of sick and dying children it is easy to forget the threat, the fear. It is easy to listen to a flawed theory and rage against conspiracy. Until people start dying again... Sorry. Most of you have never had the measles, mumps. But unfortuneatley your children will if this keeps up.

Clinton
01-08-2011, 10:56 AM
1) Cases of Autism have increased by over 500% in the last decade or so ... something is causing this epidemic
Purported cases. Autism itself is highly overstated.

Greg
01-08-2011, 11:08 AM
Sorry. Most of you have never had the mumps or measles. This is because your parents watched children die of these diseases and when a vaccine was created they rushed to innoculate you. Many of you are alive due to these drugs. But ah we forget. When you don't see the epidemic numbers of sick and dying children it is easy to forget the threat, the fear. It is easy to listen to a flawed theory and rage against conspiracy. Until people start dying again... Sorry. Most of you have never had the measles, mumps. But unfortuneatley your children will if this keeps up.Great post, Chuck. :thumbsup:

CAJoe
01-09-2011, 03:18 AM
Great post, Chuck. :thumbsup:

x2 :thumbsup:

trk8
01-09-2011, 04:51 AM
Great post, Chuck. :thumbsup:

Not to be argumentative, but what you are basically saying is that we need to be thankful that some sort of "protection" is available to safe guard our lives, and no matter if the scare of the illness is true or not. For example the H1N1 or swine flue late 2008 early 2009, that yes admittedly claimed a number of lives but was not that dooms day plague, with all the vaccines rushed into production, not to mention the billions spent allover the world to pharmaceutical was more than happy to get, with effects on every one traveling and thermal cameras in airports and all the fuss, bla bla bla.
Most importantly to me personally, that after my 2 year old son got a flue shot to help protect him from the flue in 2008, he started to withdraw into his own world, not being responsive and not noticing anything around him and my wife and I running like crazy trying to find out what we can do to ease whatever is going on with him, and after 2 years we started getting some results but we still keep faith and hope that he will be well soon and stay well.
Now after all of that are you still saying that I should be thankful for a rushed in money making toxin injected into my child's body without any proof that it does not do any damage to his nerves especially knowing that mercury is present in that drug?
If you are, sorry, but I'm the one who has to look after that boy and no matter what, I will never stop thinking that it might have been preventable by not taking that shot, at least, till I get proof of otherwise.

Treinenwj
01-09-2011, 10:33 AM
Trk8, I'm sorry about your son, and I hope he improves quickly. However, there is no evidence the flu vaccine causes that sort of thing. Autism and other developmental issues usually become noticeable around 2 years old, regardless of vaccination history.

Read the below article, particularily myth #5.

http://www.usatoday.com/yourlife/health/medical/coldflu/2010-11-15-myths-flu_N.htm

trk8
01-09-2011, 11:34 AM
Trk8, I'm sorry about your son, and I hope he improves quickly. However, there is no evidence the flu vaccine causes that sort of thing. Autism and other developmental issues usually become noticeable around 2 years old, regardless of vaccination history.

Read the below article, particularily myth #5.

http://www.usatoday.com/yourlife/health/medical/coldflu/2010-11-15-myths-flu_N.htm

Thank you so much and you are absolutely right, but I believe that it's inconclusive. Mercury contaminants are present in baby formula and breast milk like the article states, but how much of this or that is too much for a certain child? I can't tell either which way, all I'm saying is why can't there be a safer way to give the vaccine without introducing extra risk factors?
Honestly speaking, I don't know and can't give a definite answer and I appreciate all the great work researchers do but I also hope that no one suffers for cutting "few corners" when there is a safer way, also like the article mentioned.
Finally, I know, what's done is done no matter what the cause is, the best thing now is to look ahead and hope for the best for all kids out there.