Q: What is Ultra-Premium Price Point Level?

[ssaka]

Figure I would stir the pot a little...

Everyone always talks about this cigar or that cigar being too expensive, but I am going to state emphatically that the is also a point at which a cigar can be too inexpensive. I do not believe that if Opus X were a $6 stick they would be regarded as Opus X... Even if miraculously they could somehow make them exactly the same for a cost that allowed it, which I do not believe they can knowing what it takes to make such a cigar.

Pricepoints establish expectations and positions a product. Now granted, in return the consumer who buys these products is expecting and deserving of a better grade of product which is more consistent and actually does cost more to make - so there is definitely a relationship between price and quality when it comes to products - people expect/know they are getting excellence when they buy an Opus X, Padron Anniversary, Liga Privada, Ashton VSG, Davidoff, you fill in the brand...

Cigars are a very personal thing, so why those brands I listed may not float your boat and while you may like such and such a $6 cigar better than all of them, you can not deny that there is no $6 cigar that is held in as high esteem by most as the brands I have listed, even though you may personally think it is actually a better cigar.

So the question I pose is what is the ideal price point that you consider puts a cigar into the realm of being an Uber-Premium cigar and one that you would expect to judge against the ESTABLISHED Uber-Premium Brands?

So lets say the new UBER-Premium has these 5 sizes:

Corona
Robusto
Toro
Double Corona
Torpedo

What price point do -YOU- think would be the right one to position amongst today's top tier brands?

Ignore taxes and just go for MSRP.

This is a very hypothetical discussion and fwiw, I already have an opinion which I may or may not share later after others add their opinions. And yes this thread may educate some knucklehead cigar importer, but I am okay with that cause there is a hell of a lot more that goes into making a successful cigar than just price.

I can only imagine the replies this thread is going to get... <snicker>

BR,

STS

 

[mwlabel]

Ignore taxes and just go for MSRP.

Well, based on this model: Gurkha is about as premium as it gets. Many of their sticks have MSRPs way up in the double digits. Though, they're always super on sale for ~$3 per stick - what a deal!
LOL

Honestly, I really can't answer the question. I feel there is usually such a huge price difference between a corona and Double Corona in a line, that it's hard to make one answer.

 

[ssaka]

Not looking for one answer - I figured people would assign a price to each of those sizes... for example:

Corona - $29.95
Robusto - $34.95
Toro - $39.95
Double Corona - $44.95
Torpedo - $49.95

And no, those are not my legit price answers... sheesh - just trying to give an example without interjecting my own opinion...

STS

 

[Fourtotheflush]

I think once you go over $10 per cigar you are inching into the premium category.

Anthing over $15 per is ultra premium.

Anything over $20 I think is just Plaid.

 

[Dave]

I started to answer, thinking I could easily just say $10 or $12 pre-tax, realistic MSRP.....but I got to thinking and now I'm wavering. I am having trouble with the concept of super-premium even though 5 minutes ago, I thougth it clear-cut in my mind. You and JD and Andre and Pete (and others) have made this a bit more complicated, I think. Just a few years ago there were a couple Fuentes, a couple Padrons, an Ashton or two and maybe Davidoff. North of $10 seemed natural for those, but little else other than LE/RE CC's. Nowadays, the releases come fast and furious - along with high-altitude price points well before the public (we) have much chance to evaluate whether we think they're slotted reasonably. Maybe I'm just more confused because I consider super-premium to be even a bit more ephemeral than price and quality -- it also encompasses desirability. I'm sort of blown away at how a 'new' LP or LE Tat can be elevated to the uber plateau before more than a few hundred people have even burned one.
Sorry....more stream of conciousness nonsense than you were looking for.....OK, OK.....

uber msrp pre-tax: $10+

 

[Dave]

Anything over $20 I think is just Plaid.

Plaid?

Particularly Ludicrous - An Idiotic Dimension?

 

[Fourtotheflush]

[video=youtube;NP6DXoNKITc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP6DXoNKITc[/video]

 

[SmokeProper]

I started to answer, thinking I could easily just say $10 or $12 pre-tax, realistic MSRP.....but I got to thinking and now I'm wavering. I am having trouble with the concept of super-premium even though 5 minutes ago, I thougth it clear-cut in my mind. You and JD and Andre and Pete (and others) have made this a bit more complicated, I think. Just a few years ago there were a couple Fuentes, a couple Padrons, an Ashton or two and maybe Davidoff. North of $10 seemed natural for those, but little else other than LE/RE CC's. Nowadays, the releases come fast and furious - along with high-altitude price points well before the public (we) have much chance to evaluate whether we think they're slotted reasonably. Maybe I'm just more confused because I consider super-premium to be even a bit more ephemeral than price and quality -- it also encompasses desirability. I'm sort of blown away at how a 'new' LP or LE Tat can be elevated to the uber plateau before more than a few hundred people have even burned one.
Sorry....more stream of conciousness nonsense than you were looking for.....OK, OK.....

uber msrp pre-tax: $10+

Lots of good points there Dave.

And I actually agree.... Over the $10 mark is the range you are asking about Steve.
But should we define 'ultra' 'uber' 'super'? Is there a difference in your mind or my mind?

All I know is I like great cigars, I smoke usually 1-2 a day, I spend hundreds a month on average, the daily smokes for me are special occasion smokes for most guys....and all that said, I hate paying $9 or more on a cigar. With truly great stuff available from Pete and Pepin etc I can usually avoid higher costs. I'll wait until a more pricey cigar I like can be had for less cuz a shop promo or something. And that's one of the reasons I unfortunately don't smoke the LP stuff that I like.... I can't find it for $7/8/9 like u can the nicer tat stuff.

 

[JDog]

Not to get super geeky here but you can actually perform this in a very scientific manner using a conjoint analysis. You can actually survey smokers by presenting them with scenarios, such as pricepoint, expectation factors (perception), etc. If you present them with enough scenarios you can figure out how they make trade-offs between things like pricepoint to expectations. You can then figure out the market’s preference or at least a segment of the market's preference. I'm currently traveling and can't reference my materials on the topic, but found this link that, at least, explains the concept... http://www.pragmaticmarketing.com/resources/conjoint-analysis-101. It doesn't tell you how to set it up or do it correctly. I haven't done one of these in about 4 years.

I'll have to think about your more direct question with the sizes and expected pricing.

 

[GoingPostal]

It is tough to say because what is premium and ultra premium differs from person to person and location. Me personally once you start getting to $8-$10 a stick that is a special occasion stick for me So i really don't smoke many premiums.

So IMHO

premium ranges from $10-$15,
ultra premium $15-$20,
Uber Premium- $20 and up.

 

[Dave]

Not to get super geeky

lol.....literally.....we may need another thread: "What is super geeky to you?"

 

[bballbaby]

Here's the subject matter for me

Corona - $12-$13
Robusto - $13-$15
Toro - $14-$15
Double Corona - $18-$20
Torpedo - $15-17

Anything over $20 a stick is in a whole different catergory, IMO; lIke the Padron Annis, GoF, ESGs, and so on. OpusX and the large portion of the Padron 26 and 64 fall under $20 in the average case, state tax dependent, and that is primarily the benchmark for me in this conversation.

Also at those price points it's just high enough for me to pay very close attention when I'm deciding to purchase one. I would typically not purchase them in 5ers and would not be likely to buy them by the box unless I was either nicely buzzed or my wife was being extremely nice, which has been the case on several occasions.

Lastly, at those price points, especially when they get between $15 and $20, I have expectations for sure.

 

[aherzing]

$12-17 Ultra Premium
$17-20 Uber Premium
$20+ Cant say Ive ever smoke something that I was happy I spent the $20 on

 

[Knickerbocker]

great thread, with some great points.

 

[W.B.]

IMO, Ultra-Premium expectations begin around here.
Corona-$8
Robusto-$9
Toro-$10
Double Corona-$12
Torpedo-$11

Javajunkie brought up a great comparison with the Oliva V Melanio here http://www.botl.org/community/forums/showthread.php/61854-New-Oliva-Cigar/page2 in post #28 concerning evaluating a new product to an established one(Padron).

 

[TravelingJ]

As far as Uber premiums go, I'd expect it to be start at $20, and work up as the size goes up.

I would also have other expectations as well. If someone brand new threw that out a cigar that was $25, I wouldn't call it Uber-Premium-I'd call it wishful thinking. When you guys release yours (which I assume is what this thread is alluding to) you have a history of making cigars that are already pushing into Ultra-Premium territory.

 

[sneak_a_cigar]

Small quick smokes: >6.50
Corona> 9.00
Robusto or CG >10.50
Toro or Churchill >13.00

These include Taxes. I don't know msrp, only the prices I tend to pay.

I feel most comfortable spending <8 bucks on a stick. Generally get smaller sizes for convenience and lower cost.

 

[D Quintero]

If its a Nicaraguan Puro, the premiums are
shorts 5
skinnys 6
pc 7
corona 8
lonsdale 10
lance 13
robusto 12
torp 14
dbl robusto 15

save your fancy pants packaging w/
pigtails and square presses
for the DE anniverasarios
then you can add another 2-5

would love to try the no.9 blend in a skinny btw

and please, no more 54+ ding dong smokes

imho:thumbsup:

 

[Surfrod55]

Just a curve ball on this. I live on Long Island so when I go to the local smoke shop and buy lets say CAO MX2 Toro I am going to spend about $14.00 is that consider a premium cigar

 

[Hoshneer]

Anything over $20 is uber premium to me. Which I gotta say I have never paid for anything over that price.