Is this about FCC or CoH?

[Legends of the Playground]

http://www.internationalcigarclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3839

spooky stuff....

"Soooo....I finally got the certified letter from the Dept. of the Treasury. It's a requirement to furnish information. I did not have any boxes confiscated. This thing came out of the blue:

"It has come to our attention that on two occasions between January 19, 2005, and March 24, 2005, you purchased Cuban cigars from a company located in XXX"

They're telling me I have to provide
1. The dates, quantity, and value of Cuban cigars purchased by me, and indicate meathod of payment.

2. Copies of all transactional documents, such as invoices, bills of sale, receipts, etc.

3. The method by which I imported the cigars into the US.

4. Any additional information that is relevant to this matter.

My report is due at OFAC within 20 days, or I will face criminal penalties ranging from up to 10 years in prison, $250,000 in individual fines, or civil penalties of up to $65,000.

Question: Is this something new, or is this the same letter that everyone else advises should just be ignored?"

This did not happen to me but I think this is all about FCC.

 

[Quadry]

My response would be that I have no idea what they are talking about, I ordered Dominican cigars. I would play dumb as fuck and give them no info to throw me under the bus. If they truly had any info, they would have taken them.

 

[Legends of the Playground]

You gonna plead ignorance when the site is named Finest Cuban Cigars and only sells Cubans? :hysterica

I have never ordered from FCC. And these rumors started up last year but this could get ugly if OFAC is seriously trying to nail people.

 

[Quadry]

Could not hurt! I would try that or this :crytears:

 

[Rutkus]

i am really curious to how people are responding on that thread. i'm not a member on that site unfortunately, clue us in if you would please.

 

[GuyMcBeerdrinker]

yeah, let us know how people are responding.

 

[Legends of the Playground]

First line of defense is ignore it. The worst thing you could do is respond. Remember, the burden is on them. Most all of these are just routine and if you don't respond you never hear another word. Although I've never heard of one without a confiscation so maybe someone else could shed a little more light.

Hmmmm....perhaps they are getting the info from the shipping company used by this HK vendor? Or the HK vendor is supplying info? If they were looking at my bank account, they'd see that I've bought from vendors other than HK. Looks like HK is the common denominator here.

I'm guessing you both bought the cigars with ... a VISA credit card?

I heard from a vendor that VISA asked him to provide an invoice for a cigar sale he shipped to the USA as the customer disputed the charge. As it happens, the customer was "friends" with the vendor. The vendor contacted the customer who swore he never asked VISA anything about the charge. Recently, the same thing has happened more and more often. But only from orders paid for with VISA credit cards emitted in the USA...

Regarding your purchase, without it being seized, there is only one way to find out what it was, and that's the invoice. There is no other possibility than your vendor telling VISA and VISA telling US authorities. Right?

VISA has alegely discovered a way to have more power in the American goverment.
Because of some thiefs in USA that buy cuban cigars - pay them with a Visa Credit Card, and as soon they are smoked they ask for the charge back of the amount paid, they have alegely discovered from a vendor in HK (I don't know the name, and this was not the only one vendor they have requested information, they are doing this on a dayly bases) that this vendor was alegely making sales of Cuban Cigars to USA.

It was alegely easy for some smart guy at VISA. To confirm VISA that the sale was legit the vendor alegely sent a real invoice of the cuban cigars purchased, with the full description.

A few month ago, they alegely started a campaign of false charge backs in order to see if some purchases made from USA residents were of Cuban cigars. I have received several and I can show you and sent by fax (give me a fax number and I will do it) the information that is requested by "Sistema 4B www.4b.es " the same to say Visa Spain.

They are very clear, they want to see the invoice with full description of the products purchased on that transaction. To protect our customers we NEVER disclosed such information. We accepted the chargeback and we try other ways to receive our money...

They have made a deep mistake with us and we've discovered all the alegely story. They have issued a chargeback request from two of my best American friends that purchased some cigars a few month ago. One is my broker at Wall Street and another is my lawyer in NY. Ofcourse both confirmed they haven't presented any chargeback to VISA or to anybody.

Alegely VISA its passing all the information to the FBI and CIA, I know that now. and then is another USA agency that is alegely incharged of the persecution.

We have no problem neither our customers, our cigar business is very big but is not our biggest business. We have other business like www.diapor.com and I can invoice as needed because all our companies are headquartered in offshore zones, like Gibraltar, Canary Island.

But attention, this is very serious and they are going after to any one they can manage to catch ! Be carefull with whom are you making your "cigars" purchases.

So...let me see if I've got this straight:

Someone (group) in the USA buys Cuban cigars using a Visa credit card.

Once the cigars are received, they ask Visa to cancel the transaction claiming it was not legitimate.

Vendor ends up not getting paid by Visa, and is rightfully pissed.

Attempting to get paid, vendor sends legitimate invoice of transaction to Visa.

Visa sees transaction is illegal in USA, and contacts Federal authorities.

This answers several questions I have (thanks Don Gabriel), but still leaves some unanswered:

If the Feds have all this transaction history from Visa...why are they sending everyone letters asking for confirmation? Why not just send the black helicopters and take us away?

What's up with Visa?

Who are the Feds going after...everyone who got a letter, or these false chargeback people?

This is a different letter from the old confiscation letter. Nothing was confiscated but OFAC knew what had been purchased.

 

[Rutkus]

just doesnt sound 100% believable to me... thanks for posting

 

[Quadry]

Yeah, I just cannot imagine them asking you to send all of that info to them and someone doing it. I would never send a thing, it is like they are trying to get you to tell on yourself. Sounds very bizarre, but I hope all of this dies down soon.

Thanks for the info Mac.

 

[Mikes]

A little bit of info I am posting is the same as quoted above but with names as I have received permission from the posters to quote them.

**HOWEVER the info from Jean to me via email I would like to stay PRIVATE in this room ONLY.**

Heres the rest of the story from a vendor who has been approached by visa, and master-card.

Lots of allegedly in his post.

VISA has allegedly discovered a way to have more power in the American government.

Because of some thief's in USA that buy Cuban cigars - pay them with a Visa Credit Card, and as soon they are smoked they ask for the charge back of the amount paid, they have allegedly discovered from a vendor in HK (I don't know the name, and this was not the only one vendor they have requested information, they are doing this on a daily bases) that this vendor was allegedly making sales of Cuban Cigars to USA.
It was allegedly easy for some smart guy at VISA. To confirm VISA that the sale was legit the vendor ALGOL sent a real invoice of the cuban cigars purchased, with the full description.

A few month ago, they ALGOL started a campaign of false charge backs in order to see if some purchases made from USA residents were of Cuban cigars. I have received several and I can show you and sent by fax (give me a fax number and I will do it) the information that is requested by "Sistema 4B www.4b.es " the same to say Visa Spain.
They are very clear, they want to see the invoice with full description of the products purchased on that transaction. To protect our customers we NEVER disclosed such information. We accepted the chargeback and we try other ways to receive our money...

They have made a deep mistake with us and we've discovered all the allegedly story. They have issued a chargeback request from two of my best American friends that purchased some cigars a few month ago. One is my broker at Wall Street and another is my lawyer in NY. Ofcourse both confirmed they haven't presented any chargeback to VISA or to anybody.

Allegedly VISA its passing all the information to the FBI and CIA, I know that now. and then is another USA agency that is allegedly in-charged of the persecution.

We have no problem neither our customers, our cigar business is very big but is not our biggest business. We have other business like www.diapor.com and I can invoice as needed because all our companies are headquartered in offshore zones, like Gibraltar, Canary Island.
But attention, this is very serious and they are going after to any one they can manage to catch ! Be careful with whom are you making your "cigars" purchases.

All the purchases made with us are secured, and risk free.
T
his is the real story.
__________________

Ravi's reply to DonGabriels post:

:

Would just like to mention that our company is also registered offshore and our credit card processing is done by World Pay i.e. Royal Bank of Scotland and a local Bank in Hong Kong. Of the very few chargebacks we have ever received since the inception of COH all of them have been resolved by personal communication between us and the buyer involved. We have never needed to resort to contesting any of these chargebacks. I might also add that none of these chargebacks were for a significant amount of money. We have never handed over any information to Visa or Master Card with regards to cigar purchases made by our customers. When you place an order and make payment through our site none of your credit card information ever crosses or hands nor is any of your credit card information stored on our own system. Your credit card information is only seen by the processing bank involved.

Here is the latest post by D.G. to Ravi's post...looks as though it is getting even worse because DG is saying he KNOWS that WorldPay (ravi's cc provider) is one of the Co's turning over names, etc. SHIT!

I am not interested on direct confrontation with other vendors, but according to some information I have from the UK, the World Pay can be one of the companies that allegedly is giving out information they have all about you, your IP address, what you have purchased and you CC billing address !!!.

NO Cuban cigars vendor should work with this company or with any other "Internet Payment Gateway Providers", you should work ONLY directly with banks. Of course, only real companies can do this, not all would stay "on-line"...

There are some "IPGP" that deal with porno websites that I know are charging 10% of commission no matters the product you sell. Do you believe this companies would give you any kind of protection ????? What would they do with your e.mail address and CC billing address ???????

If you work directly with banks like we exclusively do, you don't need to disclose any information, but this companies ("IPGP") keep on insisting on asking all CC billing address details to avoid in same cases fraudulent chargebacks. This is what they say, but when you use some "IPGP" within a few days your mailbox is full of trash, why is that ?????????

Allegedly Visa just need to threaten them, and I can guarantee you that they will disclose all the information they have. It's the way they have to guarantee their business, other way Visa will close the "shop" for them.

It's not important to say that a merchant do not store CC information, because the CC owner just need to say to the issuer that he didn't purchased that amount and they will refund him. The CC system is now only working safely to CC Owners, if you search the web you will see that I am right. I.e. :
http://www.google.com/search?hl=es&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1 &q=chargebacks&spell=1

It's very important for us to have access to the credit card number because only this way you can check the called BIN. this first 4 numbers of a credit card are directly associated with the issuer country. I.e. If a customer in India is using a credit card issued in USA with a delivery adress in India, it's almost 100% sure it's a fraudulent purchase.

If we do not have the credit card number we can't know this. I know, Worldpay does this check, but beside this checks they do other things they shouldn't be allegedly doing... ... ...

I really don't like the sound of this and really hope the sky is not falling but imo this doesn't look good at all. I am worried as I have ordered quite a few boxes from Ravi and all of my purchases made with visa from all vendors. It sounds like all it would take would be for Visa to say (anyone) has disputed the charges on xxx order, when in reality the customer hasn't disputed anything....The vendor who gets the chargeback believes Visa without checking that the chargeback was indeed made and funds removed and discloses all info in order to be re-compensated for cigars sent out. If the vendor refuses to send invoices then they risk not being able to use the Visa/Mastercard payment service.

This is just awful if this is really what is going on. :angry2:

I have emailed Jean at habana-net as well as kevin at cuban lou's and only Jean has gotten back to me.....I will post Jeans mail but again please keep this here until we can figure out what really is going on and how to handle it as I didn't ask him if I could quote him..

Hello Mike,
That is a strange story. I have heard about this in relation with 2 HK
vendors, but was not aware of the full background.
I have not been contacted by Visa in order to provide invoices of sales.
I certainly would not disclose such info about US customers. First thing
I would do is contact my customer.
These are my thoughts:
1. I have also listed non-cuban cigars on my website. If I were forced
to give any info I could always establish invoices of NC cigars.
2. I see two possibilities in order to avoid Visa-Mastercard problems in
the future:
a. use an Amex credit card for future purchases.
b. use an electronic wallet for purchases (similar to lapyap, lapyap
does not work because they don’t accept transactions for tobacco
products).
c. for larger orders bank tranfer is also suitable
Jean

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like Jean wouldn't roll over because he has an out with non cuban cigars being listed....Ravi doesn't have an out because all he sells are Cubans. Kevin @ CubanLou's doesn't have an out either...

Sounds like some vendor (HK or not) rolled over already or we wouldn't be having this talk.

I think that if pressed hard enough by the govt and cc companies the vendors will roll over to be able to continue to accept visa/ MasterCard for the rest of their 'world' customers...this is the problem I see. No visa/MasterCard then there goes that customer base that only uses those cards. Hell I don't have an Amex card

I don't think too many others cigar smokers are aware of the issue at hand here. The days of throw away letters are o_v_e_r. Looks like if you are gonna play you gotta be ready to pay

 

[Quadry]

Damn, I am trying hard here to not worry about this, but it is not working. I guess this is going to make me not order a thing for quite a while. I hope this goes away soon, but it does not look like it. I too have ordered from a few of those sites and while I do not think they would roll, it is hard to say for sure.

Looks like we are all in the same boat on this and I hope no one here has to deal with this.

You guys keep us updated and thanks.

 

[Legends of the Playground]

That bit about Ravi is most disconcerting. I had thought (like Ravi does as well) that using a 3rd party like World Pay might forestall OFAC efforts. Maybe Ravi will start selling accessories or non-Cubans in order to invoice.

FUCK!

 

[williegstyles]

I am extremely concerned considering the fact that I recently within the last 5 days placed an order (with Ravi). It really piqued my curiosity when I was deverted to the Worldpay website and they insisted that I verifly my information regarding my Visa card. My first thought was to discontinue my order and send Ravi an email to question him about this new order process. I really hope that my NOT following my gut instinct doesn't turn around to bite me in the ass.

 

[Anastasis]

First online sportsbetting/poker, and now online smoke. They are trying to kill off all my vices.

 

[Legends of the Playground]

Greg, Ravi's used World Pay for at least 18 months. Standard procedure so far. Hopefully what he said over on ICC is true and he's shielded.

 

[GuyMcBeerdrinker]

dang, I guess it's back to smoking el dentes for me.

 

[Rutkus]

fuck it, i'm not worried. just doesn't add up...either way, if you have a good relationship with your vendor, why couldn't you ask them for an invoice that has xxx amount of ashtrays or humidors, or some other goods. if a vendor is pissed off enough to send an invoice with habanos then thats fine but should be an isolated case, as far as this happening to me, well shit...what i buy tons of shit on the internet, how could i possibly remember everything i've purchased?

 

[Rutkus]

also, these vendors are not going to slit their own throats, the majority of their customers must be US based, they will find an out its just a matter of time, if this happens several times maybe a red flag will come up but this is just an isolated case.

this is like the story i heard where supposidly two fbi agents knocked on someone's door to ASK whether or not they could verify if a person had habanos in his possession...

 

[williegstyles]

I don't know if this means anything but yesterday my bank (BOA) called to verify some charges that where made on my card and one of those charges was to COH!

 

[GuyMcBeerdrinker]

I don't know about you guys, but all I buy from HK is tailored shirts and rare books and coins that I flip on ebay. :transform