What's new

Is using a mold for conformity a good thing?

Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
578
I've always wanted to roll like hamlet. Bunch and wrap, no mold. Smoke it fresh from the table
This is it exactly!! Maybe not fresh from the table but the joy of creation right there in front of you!

Why do we want to be conformists and force the cigars to be a certain size and shape? So our cigars can look like what the big factories produce?

We want them to be "pretty" just like factory. I know I had a feeling of satisfaction when someone would say to me... "Dude, this looks like factory cigar!" No doubt this gave a sense of accomplishment that many home rollers seek to achieve but is this good advice when trying to produce the best smoking cigar you can? Maybe not.

They can still be 'pretty' but why not let them be what they want to be as far as size and shape. Forcing them into a mold and then cutting them all the same length so they 'conform' to the dimensions to fit in a box makes them as un-unique as it gets. Don't get me wrong, there's certainly nothing wrong with wanting to make a good looking cigar but by making them conform into the perfect mold causes some of them to have compromised performance as far as draw being too tight or loose which could affect flavor and overall enjoyment.

Molds were not invented to produce the best quality cigars but rather to aid the torcedore to produce 'uniform' cigars as fast as possible. Most of us have the time to produce cigars without the aid of such a restrictive, conforming device that could ill effect the draw and overall performance of the cigar.

The best example I can use is the six cigars I just rolled. The formulae was exactly the same but due to variations in the thickness of each leaf each cigar turned out a little different. You can see that some would be slightly tight or loose if they had been compressed into a mold. Using paper to hold the bunch takes a few seconds longer to perform but fortunately I have no production deadlines to meet.

We have the wherewithal to make our cigars unique and completely 'hand rolled' to our own likes but we lose that goal when we intentionally conform for the sake of appearance.

Thoughts to ponder.
 
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
2,283
Location
Newark, Dull-Aware
If you're going to stash a box load, all banded, laying in row upon row, then, for sure, it makes a real aesthetic improvement to have them come out looking uniform by using a mold. I usually make a half dozen or so extras on a batch, just so I can sort out the ones with a knobbly head or a ratty flag or such not. Rejects go in the humidor and get smoked. But the uniform ones go in the box, with uniform bands applied at a uniform level etc. I'll even put the better looking ones on the top row, just for the "dayum!" factor when I crack that box open six months hence. Works.

In fact, you remind me I need to crack a six month batch this afternoon when I get home.

That said, my current project is to attempt 50 unmolded quickies in one Big Payback Chavala box, 5"x52rg. That project's to see how consistent I can get by hand. Prolly have to roll 80 to stash 50. ... But this project is hanging on my first finding a blend I like enough to do 50 and have enough leaf to roll 50. Ordered a couple pounds WLT Dom binder over the weekend which I hope will help my break thru. I think I have found some suitable guts; just need something to hold it firm.

Bottom line, yeah, your gars develop a much more rounded flavor if you let them set six months in the box, and your box looks way better with uniform contents.
 
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
2,955
This is it exactly!! Maybe not fresh from the table but the joy of creation right there in front of you!

Why do we want to be conformists and force the cigars to be a certain size and shape? So our cigars can look like what the big factories produce?

We want them to be "pretty" just like factory. I know I had a feeling of satisfaction when someone would say to me... "Dude, this looks like factory cigar!" No doubt this gave a sense of accomplishment that many home rollers seek to achieve but is this good advice when trying to produce the best smoking cigar you can? Maybe not.

They can still be 'pretty' but why not let them be what they want to be as far as size and shape. Forcing them into a mold and then cutting them all the same length so they 'conform' to the dimensions to fit in a box makes them as un-unique as it gets. Don't get me wrong, there's certainly nothing wrong with wanting to make a good looking cigar but by making them conform into the perfect mold causes some of them to have compromised performance as far as draw being too tight or loose which could affect flavor and overall enjoyment.

Molds were not invented to produce the best quality cigars but rather to aid the torcedore to produce 'uniform' cigars as fast as possible. Most of us have the time to produce cigars without the aid of such a restrictive, conforming device that could ill effect the draw and overall performance of the cigar.

The best example I can use is the six cigars I just rolled. The formulae was exactly the same but due to variations in the thickness of each leaf each cigar turned out a little different. You can see that some would be slightly tight or loose if they had been compressed into a mold. Using paper to hold the bunch takes a few seconds longer to perform but fortunately I have no production deadlines to meet.

We have the wherewithal to make our cigars unique and completely 'hand rolled' to our own likes but we lose that goal when we intentionally conform for the sake of appearance.

Thoughts to ponder.
I'd offer to buy back your conformist 42rg mold but I already replaced it with a wood one.
 
Rating - 100%
64   0   0
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,690
Location
Gilbert AZ
Hell, I go so far as to not even use paper to form the cigar when I go this route. Make the bunch as tight as I can with a strong binder leaf and apply the wrapper right away. Way faster than using any kind of mold and you can get some killer looking sticks when you get good at it. Like anything, it takes time and practice. I still use my molds because I want a uniform ring gauge which affects my wrapper to filler ratio and the flavor of my blends. Could I do the same without a mold? I'm sure with practice I could, it's just easier to use the tools I have.
 
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
2,640
Location
Central Maryland
It is if consistency is on your bucket list. I like all your points but, about this one,
.... The formulae was exactly the same but due to variations in the thickness of each leaf each cigar turned out a little different. You can see that some would be slightly tight or loose if they had been compressed into a mold. ....
If your formula includes leaves of different bodies, (thicknesses) this would not be an example of consistency. if this is what your trying to do I can't argue that but, for those of you looking for consistency sorting through your leaf is what gets you there.
 
Last edited:
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
578
It is if consistency is on your bucket list. I like all your points but, about this one,

If your formula includes leaves of different bodies, (thicknesses) this would not be an example of consistency.
That's exactly correct. The leaves, by nature, have a great deal of inconsistency but when you put them in a mold you don't compensate for this variation and are compressing them all at the same pressure. The mold gives you the desired consistent appearance but at the expense of having some cigars too tight and some too loose and thereby introducing inconsistency through a box of cigars. As beautiful and perfect in the box as they may look to the eye the inside of the cigar tells a different story.

The hands of a skilled roller could compensate for these thickness variations in each cigar and give more consistent draw and produce a better cigar but at the expense of inconsistencies in appearance or size. This would be unacceptable to manufacturers who want them to look perfect to the eye and are fully aware of some over compressed cigars hidden in the box.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
578
That said, my current project is to attempt 50 unmolded quickies in one Big Payback Chavala box, 5"x52rg. That project's to see how consistent I can get by hand. Prolly have to roll 80 to stash 50. ... But this project is hanging on my first finding a blend I like enough to do 50 and have enough leaf to roll 50.
That's the spirit!!
I'm curious to see how this goes. Please keep us posted. I would imagine you should improve after each roll. After 50 or so you should be producing a very good cigar.

May the force be with you.
 

Nacho Daddy

Irrepressibly Irreverent Inveterate Ignominy
Rating - 100%
121   0   0
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
3,479
never used a mold, and never rolled a really bad cigar.
not really uniform looking, but that is not critical to me.
some were too tight at first, took a little work to smoke them, learned what I was doing wrong.
also had the chance to use odd bits of leaf, really did work out well.
 

Dominican56

CRA #99997657
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
1,499
Location
Farmington Hills, MI
never used a mold, and never rolled a really bad cigar.
not really uniform looking, but that is not critical to me.
some were too tight at first, took a little work to smoke them, learned what I was doing wrong.
also had the chance to use odd bits of leaf, really did work out well.
What were you doing wrong on the "too tight" ones??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
578
What were you doing wrong on the "too tight" ones??
Great question!

I was using a blend using a leaf count as a measurement. Something like 'two leaves of seco and a half leaf of ligero'. Each cigar gets the same count.
The problem is... the leaves can vary in thickness. So,even though they contain the same count they ALL end up different thicknesses. Some more than others. Then they are forced to conform to the specific size of the mold so they come out the same size. Some will inevitably be slightly too tight or loose.

When you learn to 'free roll' by hand you go by feel. No matter what leaf you use the pressure used to roll them remains the same from cigar to cigar. In this case, using the same count method each cigar will end up a slightly different size. This is not good for a manufacturer who wants to fit them perfectly in a box. The mold was invented NOT to make a better cigar. It took less skill and produced cigars that were very good looking, perfect size and in less time. When molds were first introduced the old timers argued that the cigars were machine made.

This allowed for less skilled rollers to take jobs away from the true craftsman with years of experience. The factories could make more money with less skilled workers is the reason they used molds. Mold workers got paid less, often one-fifth as much, so a cigar company could cut production costs substantially.

So, I've come to believe the old, original way will produce the most consistent results and a better smoking cigar one after another. Anyone with a little practice can stuff tobacco in a mold, squeeze into shape and get a nice looking cigar. Hand rolling from scratch is the truest form of the craft and IMO is well worth the effort to learn especially since we don't have the constraint of fitting 20 cigars perfectly in a box or pay labor production costs.
 
Top