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Leaf discussion: can taste characteristics be sorted by cou ntry of origin?

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I am still struggling with my approach to blending. I have read the blend threads with interest. I have blended a few very serviceable cigars. I have blended a few cigars I would not want to smoke again. I have rolled a total of about 200 cigars batched into 16 different blends. For me the whole process is hit or miss.

A thought occurred to me: can leaf be sorted broadly by country of origin? Is there a Nicaragua "taste" that is common to all leaf from that region?

It seems most commercial cigar companies have common taste elements across their whole cigar line. Is that consistency achieved by using common binder and seco filler, for instance, varying only the Ligero, visio and wrapper between blends?
 
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The accepted 'wisdom' is yes.

I'll go with 'no.' You can buy all the Nica leaf at LO and WLT and none of it's gonna taste like a Warped, Illusione, Tatuaje, or Padron. It's down to specific farms and agronomy and piles of fermented and aged leaf. By the same token you can buy Dominican puros that taste more like your fave Nica sticks than anything we can buy at LO or WLT.

OTOH most Nica boutique brands taste pretty much the same right now, as do most Cubans. As to why, I can't guess.
 
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With the "commercial cigar companies common taste elements across their whole cigar line" as well as other lines that come from said maker/factory/blender can and, commonly will have a similar signature profile taste elements.
Besides the type of tobacco, "specific farms and agronomy and piles of fermented and aged leaf", there is that trade secret stuff in the preparation (processing) that will lend a lot to the consistence of it. you'll have assembly (leaf placement/style of bunch) as well.
Each type of leaf, behond primings will have additional sorting due to growing development.
 

Cigary43

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I wish I knew more about this as I have never grown or blended tobaccos from different areas....but everything I have read tells me that each area does have their indigenous tastes...i.e. "twang" as we say about CC's. Professional Manufacturers grow and blend as a Specialty item from those areas but there is still a core taste of local soils and not that it's easy to taste...sommelier is one who has specialized in their education of wines...they know the ins and outs of where it's been grown...etc. We don't have a name for "Cigar Sommelier"...we just have those who grow with their own experience in this hobby and I'm pretty sure that they are as good as any wine sommelier.
 
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Assuming each country/region has a specific taste profile, I suppose I could begin to understand these differences by rolling a series of puro batches. For instance, all leaf from Ecuador, then Nicaragua, then DR, etc.

I understand your point about things that are done after the leaf is purchased and before it is rolled. That's beyond my ability to evaluate at this point. I suspect we as hobby rollers will never have access to any of those "pre production" processes. It probably is the ying to the seasonal crop variances yang that allows manufacturers to maintain a consistent blend year after year.

Hmmmm... I wonder what happens to the blending records of cigar manufacturers that are no longer in business.

I know of one cigar shop in Silver Spring, MD that rolls their own cigars. They write the blend on the paper wrapper of the wheels, but its all in Spanish.
 
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Have some sense of what a combination will taste like BEFORE I start conditioning leaves.
Have a sense of what to adjust when a blend I create doesn't taste like I want.

I guess that means that, to some extend, I want to Become a blender.
 

mjones9630

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Bro.. YouTube
There's some great videos on the subject... lots of insight into the industry, tours of factories and farms, details on the different types of tobaccos, curing/fermenting, blending, rolling, aging, all of it.. well worth grabbing a smoke and checking them out!
I think a couple of our rolling brethren here even have YouTube rolling tutorials.
 

Cigary43

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Bro.. YouTube
There's some great videos on the subject... lots of insight into the industry, tours of factories and farms, details on the different types of tobaccos, curing/fermenting, blending, rolling, aging, all of it.. well worth grabbing a smoke and checking them out!
I think a couple of our rolling brethren here even have YouTube rolling tutorials.
My dream vacay is to take a few weeks and go to these places where all of this activity goes on...along with Rum and Tequila Tours....sounds like Heaven to me!
 
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Have some sense of what a combination will taste like BEFORE I start conditioning leaves.
Have a sense of what to adjust when a blend I create doesn't taste like I want.

I guess that means that, to some extend, I want to Become a blender.
The bitch of it is, knowing what "leaf a" tastes like by itself and what "leaf b" tastes like doesn't guarantee that "a+b=c". When two leaves blend together there is some chemistry that happens that can make something completely unexpected happen. That's why I have close to 60 different filler blends tested to date with almost a dozen different wrappers with maybe 5 combos I repeat
 
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The bitch of it is, knowing what "leaf a" tastes like by itself and what "leaf b" tastes like doesn't guarantee that "a+b=c". When two leaves blend together there is some chemistry that happens that can make something completely unexpected happen. That's why I have close to 60 different filler blends tested to date with almost a dozen different wrappers with maybe 5 combos I repeat
I understand. It's kind of like cooking. If you've never tasted garlic by itself, you have no concept of what it will do when you double the amount you put into Grandma's lasagna recipe. The difference in cigar blending is that, aside from the "3+2+1=6" and the "ligero plus visio plus seco" rules of thumb, we have no " grandma's recipie" to start with.

I can go to allrecipies.com right now and get at least 6 recipes for literally anything I have ever had at any restaurant in the world. Looking at 6 recipes will give me a sense of what the "common" elements are in the dish, and allow me to extrapolate something which may be a direct copy, and may be none of the above. I do that regularly, with what I consider good results

I suppose the closest thing that could be created is a database of clones of commercial blends. Unlike cooking, or beer brewing, there is no tradition in cigar hobby that I have seen that seeks to clone commercial sticks. There is therefore no basis of comparison. Say I roll up a blend that dominican56 says is the bee's knees. I really dislike it. Do I dislike it because I got a different batch Seco? Because he has better taste than I? If we were working to create, say a La Gloria Cubana Serie N, we can both go buy that stick, taste it and have a common goal.

Sorry for the whining, I truly appreciate the generosity of all the BOTLs that choose to share their creations' details with us. I just get frustrated that, IMHO I have made no progress in blending from the first day I started torturing leaf for my own twisted purposes. I guess I need to mellow out and enjoy the ride, instead of asking " Are we there yet?"
 

Dominican56

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I understand. It's kind of like cooking. If you've never tasted garlic by itself, you have no concept of what it will do when you double the amount you put into Grandma's lasagna recipe. The difference in cigar blending is that, aside from the "3+2+1=6" and the "ligero plus visio plus seco" rules of thumb, we have no " grandma's recipie" to start with.

I can go to allrecipies.com right now and get at least 6 recipes for literally anything I have ever had at any restaurant in the world. Looking at 6 recipes will give me a sense of what the "common" elements are in the dish, and allow me to extrapolate something which may be a direct copy, and may be none of the above. I do that regularly, with what I consider good results

I suppose the closest thing that could be created is a database of clones of commercial blends. Unlike cooking, or beer brewing, there is no tradition in cigar hobby that I have seen that seeks to clone commercial sticks. There is therefore no basis of comparison. Say I roll up a blend that dominican56 says is the bee's knees. I really dislike it. Do I dislike it because I got a different batch Seco? Because he has better taste than I? If we were working to create, say a La Gloria Cubana Serie N, we can both go buy that stick, taste it and have a common goal.

Sorry for the whining, I truly appreciate the generosity of all the BOTLs that choose to share their creations' details with us. I just get frustrated that, IMHO I have made no progress in blending from the first day I started torturing leaf for my own twisted purposes. I guess I need to mellow out and enjoy the ride, instead of asking " Are we there yet?"
It appears to me that you are looking for a shortcut. There aren’t any.

You will have to blend and try over and over again. It takes some years for professional blenders to mature, no different than an amateur blender should be expected to do.

Buy and try. I’ve been at it for slightly less than a year and only now am I discovering what combination of leaf works for my palette. I’ve got a long way to go before I understand the blending nuances of various cigar leaf when combined.

Understand you don’t have access to leaf the big boys use. They cultivate and ferment their own leaf to get the flavor profile they desire. Unfortunately we have access to a limited amount of cigar leaf.

Then there is aging your cigars. The one you like right off of the rolling table will be a completely different animal 6 months from the time you rolled it.

It’s a journey but a fun one. For me anyway, it is.
 
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