Rocky patel olde world reserve

[CBC]

Upon receiving my new rp olde worlds, i became curious about their consistently uniform appearance, which was a color similar to that of oreo cookies. Having read considerably about dying, i decided to pop the hood and here's what i found:
The foot color was very dark, so i cut back to reveal a much lighter filler not visible upon presentation. This color was dramatically lighter. W/an exacto, i cut the wrapper length-wise. It was almost jet black on the outside, but brown on the inside. Spotting was evident underneath the wrapper, which had un-uniformly "spotted" through to the long filler. I performed a similar operation on alec bradley supervisor selects with identical results. Cao's brazilia had a darker foot-end than filler, however, both sides of the wrapper were identical in color. The color was quite (suspiciously) uniform, unit-to-unit, box-to-box.
Conclusion: Rp/alec bradley/cao products do not display the color variation once commonly found in many top cigar brands.
Questions for discussion:
1)if the mfrs. Mentioned are not coloring their products, what can explain the evidence found?
2)are you uncomfortable not knowing what could be contained in a possible staining/flavoring agent?
3)any additive or adjunct, for appearance or flavor, fundamentally departs from the concept of a 'real' cigar, if not otherwise stated. Without full knowledge, you could be smoking a 'frankenstein' cigar, which is more of a concoction (concept) than a true/real tobacco experience, which would convey craftmanship, skill, tradition...all the things that go into what you are being told is an artisan product. Rocky has been contacted, but declined responding. Are you really "o.k." with not knowing the truth?

 

[jwintosh]

so, do you think these companies are scamming? i'm not quite following what you want. most of the boxes i get are uniform in appearance....

 

[CBC]

i believe that any departure from tobacco, w/out disclosure, except of course the infused cigars, ie: acid, etc., 'is' not honest. i further assert that a "concoction" is being foisted upon us all in the form of flavorings held within the wrapper to sweeten the smoke, in addition to coloring for presentation. i just recently became aware of this practice, but the olde worlds proved to arouse suspicion more than any other. i read where rocky did not respond to an inquiry and this arouses curiosity in the face of almost jet black wrappers hardly ever seen anywhere. the stick gets great reviews, but i ordered before i read the article, so i'm "stuck w/sticks" that i probably will not smoke because i'm feeling like rocky, ab and sadly, to some degree, cao is selling flavored cigars that are not "real". the ceo of drew estate responded in length, and noted he only uses natural colors from tobacco to rub down the finished product.

 

[5280Duc]

I liked the Olde World Reserve I smoked. Hell, my wife dyes her hair and she doesn`t announce the fact every time she does. Should I enjoy her less? If you like em smoke em if you don`t gift em to someone who does.

 

[stroke]

CBC, that's a topic that has been discussed in length before and is a concern of many of us here. But, IMHO, smoke what you like, and like what you smoke! (not my quote, can't recall where I got it) There is dye in most of the foods that you consume, does that concern you? It has also been brought up that, upon handling a cigar with wet hands, some people have found color that bled onto their hands. I remember seeing someone post that the color of tobacco leafs naturally bleeds out and most cigar rollers have stained hands from rolling cigars.

Anyway, my point is this: concerns with color uniformity aside, try it out and see what you think. Don't judge a cigar by its wrapper. If you enjoy it, smoke it.

Why don't you stop by and introduce yourself?

 

[CBC]

thanks for your input. surely, i'm aware of additives in foods, but they're disclosed...at least. then, and only then, i can make an informed choice. w/gars, there's really no 'knowing' at all. the rub is that rocky is producing concoctions, not "true" cigars. he's avoided the topic, unlike drew estate, and yet somehow his followers ravenously await his newest 'creation'. good smokes, yeah, they're good, but remember that when anything is burned, the act of combustion creates complex compounds that you probably want to avoid 'if' they began as artificial. i want tobacco, and that's all. i don't want to smoke a "concept cigar"...just an honest stick will do.

 

[CBC]

just gessin' u ain't smokin' her hair!

creeps me out knowing something artificial could be in there. just weird, man, really weird. no more rockys for me or cao brazilias: too sweet toward the end...suspiciously sweet. that ain't no real maduro, bro.

long ashes!

 

[njstone]

Rocky doesn't "dye" his cigars. When they are rolled in the factory, the rollers use water to wet down the wrapper leaf to make it easier to roll and to (greatly) reduce breakage. This was a decision based on keeping costs down. The 2ndary effect of this is that some of the natural maduro color comes off from the water and is spread over the wrapper by the rollers hands, giving the cigars a much more uniform color.

This process is employed by many manufacturers these days. Some of us feel the color looks too uniform (almost fake), others complain that the wrapper color seems to rub off more on cigars that are rolled this way, vs cigars that are "dry rolled."

I personally find the color rubbing off mildly annoying, but if I like the flavor and burn of a cigar, I'll put up with it, and I like the OWR Maduros.

Both the OWR Maduros and CAO Brazilias are "real" maduros, and have no additives of any kind. All 100% natural tobacco.

I just smoked my first Padron 40th Maduro (which was AWESOME!). The opening inch of this cigar was VERY sweet, just as sweet as a Liga Privada #9 if not more so. Neither of those cigars are fake either.

The degree (and type) of sweetness you get from a cigar is not just the blend and wrapper leaf itself, but the method used for fermenting that wrapper to make it a maduro. Pete Johnson (of Tatuaje) discussed this here recently.

 

[CBC]

note though that the olde world wrapper was close to jet black on one side and brown on the other. this suggests that it very well may have and probably did pass through a roller in final preparation, and may have been long-fermented to produce darker coloration, but the physical examination suggests also a fairly intensive "rub down" w/coloring and possibly a flavoring agent as well.
it is interesting that drew estate responded to the question, and the rocky patel organization did not. the olde world wrappers are sticky and stain the fingers unlike any other i've experienced. the cao wrappers do not do this, however, it appeared to me that the foot of my brazilia was colored for presentation. i do like this stick a lot. it's just a little too sweet to be an authentic, "old school" maduro. it's a "mass-market" concoction-but a very good one.

 

[njstone]

There are many ways to ferment wrapper to create maduros, yielding different results. I personally wouldn't not call using a different method a "concoction" as that infers there is something other than tobacco present, which there is not.

A darker color on one side of the wrapper can happen in multiple ways. It can be from the way the wrappers lie in the bales as they ferment, and it can be from rolling them using water (as stated above). These are natural and accepted practices. "Cooking" the wrappers to speed up the fermentation process is also accepted, as is adding water (I believe they spray it on) to the bales of leaves as they ferment. There are other ways too. The "maduromatic" method (i.e. dying or brushing the cigars) is generally not accepted, though some use it.

Some people don't liked "cooked" maduros, others don't like the results of the rollers using water on their hands, others don't like maduros at all, lol. To each his own.

Again, all natural. According to the manufacturers (and yes, Rocky Patel has commented on this multiples times, just not here to my knowledge), there is nothing "concocted" here.

Personally, I prefer the "old school" maduros as well ... i.e. ones that are allowed to ferment over a long period of time. That is the most expensive process, though, and also results in a lot of wrapper variation and also "mottled" wrappers sometimes. These days, more and more manufacturers are leaning away from the "old school" method because of the costs involved.

Drew Estates is one who does things the old way still, and I think it shows--the Liga Privada wrappers are some of the best in the world, imvho. But they is pricey!

As far as the OWR Maduro goes, the RP factory's switch to the water-method is fairly recent. The OWRs I have from just two years ago look significantly different (very mottled looking wrappers, not much to look at) from the newer ones. In my opinion, they taste exactly the same, and since that's what I'm primarily after, I put up with it. But if I ever met Mr. Patel, I'd humbly suggest that he quit with the water, even if it resulted in a slightly more expensive product.

 

[earnold25]

some of the new OWR maduros (from CI) that I have are wayyyyyyyy darker then some of the ones I have from when they were first released (purchased from a B&M). The newer ones also stain my lips, etc., where as the original ones don't.

 

[Craig Mac]

With all the other thousands of cigars out there, I would just move on rather than get worked up about what may or may not be going on with a handful of cigars.

 

[SergeantStogie]

I liked the Olde World Reserve I smoked. Hell, my wife dyes her hair and she doesn`t announce the fact every time she does. Should I enjoy her less? If you like em smoke em if you don`t gift em to someone who does.[/QUOTE

x2! The old saying "Don't cry over spilled milk" comes to mind. While I have found myself wondering if I was duped with the Gurkha Doble Maduro, I'd rather just quit smoking certain brands than argue about their ingredients. After all, they arent marketed as being "made from the best stuff on earth." We're talking about cigars. Not organic produce or vegan friendly clothing. Do the same people who revive this argument about dyed wrappers refuse any artifical ingredients in everything else they consume? Sort of like throwing paint on the fur coat while wearing leather nikes.

 

[dpricenator]

All three are brands I do not frequent, mainly because if flavor, but the RP stained lips and spit bother me as well.

 

[dpricenator]

Mr cool ice!!!!!!!

 

[Le Buzz]

I have no problems with posts like this. This is what the internet is all about... information.

You take the information and make decisions. That's it. There is no good or bad. I do not like dyed and flavor enhanced cigars... that's just my preference. Some people like vanilla creamer with their coffee, I like mine black. To each his own.

 

[ciggy]

Ok..I was going to lay off this post but here I go anyways...The OWR is a decent smoke regardless of the dye, if any. These are great smokes for the newer cigar smoker in my opinion who wants to dive a bit deeper into fuller flavor. When I use to smoke these I would simply moisten the head and wipe with a napkin or just take a washcloth, wet it a little, and twist the cigar gently to remove the stain without harming the wrapper. It only took me a few seconds to do this and I had no issues or staining while smoking them. I would be willing to go this extra bit for any cigar I truely like so I have to agree with some of the post above and just say if you like it smoke it...Not everyone has the same opinion, just be your own judge.

 

[strife]

Been there, search is your friend.

http://www.botl.org/community/forums/showpost.php?p=725455&postcount=106