Smaller gauge entubado bunching, canoeing

[SilkSow]

Started my 3rd day at the virtual factory, just rolled #215. A couple questions:

When bunching entubado, do you just use smaller leaves (or half leaves) to get a smaller ring gauge? Sometimes I find myself getting Lonsdales, which I prefer, and I don't think I'm using particularly small leaves, but I also don't feel like I'm cramming in that much more when I end up with the typical robusto I see in most videos doing a traditional three-leaf blend - although I do notice I get a density more like I see in pro sticks, nice and firm.

Related, my smaller vitolas, although not as firm, still burn just as well - except, regardless of vitola, my rolls almost always threaten to canoe. Not fast, but steadily. I have to touch them up several times. My suspicion is that I have the ligero leaf bunched basically in between the seco and viso, the latter of which obviously doesn't burn as well. I don't see how to get the tubed seco to be on the outside all the way around the bunch? Lately I've been doing mostly blends with 1.5-2 viso leaves, which creates a sort of "triangle" with the seco leaf where I can get the ligero definitely in the middle of the bunch, and I think it's that smaller section of seco that is burning faster.

 

[Bruce T.]

Started my 3rd day at the virtual factory, just rolled #215. A couple questions:

I don't see how to get the tubed seco to be on the outside all the way around the bunch?

I don't have a solution for you, sorry. I just thought I'd mention that I had the same problem until I started bunching with the amateur method of book style. I bunch the ligero and place it on the seco, then fold the seco over the ligero and roll. The slower burning leaves are completely surrounded by the faster burning.

I'm not suggesting that you stop using the more professional entubado method. I just thought I'd mention this for other rollers who are entubado challenged like me.

 

[blisscigarco]

Started my 3rd day at the virtual factory, just rolled #215. A couple questions:

When bunching entubado, do you just use smaller leaves (or half leaves) to get a smaller ring gauge? Sometimes I find myself getting Lonsdales, which I prefer, and I don't think I'm using particularly small leaves, but I also don't feel like I'm cramming in that much more when I end up with the typical robusto I see in most videos doing a traditional three-leaf blend - although I do notice I get a density more like I see in pro sticks, nice and firm.

Related, my smaller vitolas, although not as firm, still burn just as well - except, regardless of vitola, my rolls almost always threaten to canoe. Not fast, but steadily. I have to touch them up several times. My suspicion is that I have the ligero leaf bunched basically in between the seco and viso, the latter of which obviously doesn't burn as well. I don't see how to get the tubed seco to be on the outside all the way around the bunch? Lately I've been doing mostly blends with 1.5-2 viso leaves, which creates a sort of "triangle" with the seco leaf where I can get the ligero definitely in the middle of the bunch, and I think it's that smaller section of seco that is burning faster.

I'd modify your blend or something, to make it work. I do tons of panatelas and it's basically I start with two seco tubes laying there in sort of a V and then slot the ligero into the middle, either before I start tearing off and laying in the bits or after; and then I lay the torn-off seco bits in such a way to cover up the ligero; and then sometimes I "close the door" by laying another leaf or half of seco over any gap where the ligero is still showing. You may want to loosen up on your blend plans: skinnier sticks tend to have simplified blends. I do use half leaves as needed and I don't use any big crusty ligeros in those panatelas. I select the leaves that will work and then unfurl them if needed.

 

[SilkSow]

You may want to loosen up on your blend plans: skinnier sticks tend to have simplified blends.

Right on, I'm actually experimenting with your theory that most retail DR filler tastes the same. Because I have a ton of C98, particularly the seco as I found it makes a very convincing substitute for a Nic Hab seco binder in a couple blends (before WLT "found another bale" of the latter and I thought it wouldn't be available). So far I've only found that C98 seco seems to bring out the worst in the viso, so I swapped the blend from half a ligero, 1S, 2V to 2S, 1V. Definitely better, maybe next I'll try just leaving out the viso. In any case, I've enjoyed several sticks with the same ratios with C99 (with CVC2006 seco) so I definitely don't find it tastes the same - some can be much worse than others lol

 

[blisscigarco]

Right on, I'm actually experimenting with your theory that most retail DR filler tastes the same. Because I have a ton of C98, particularly the seco as I found it makes a very convincing substitute for a Nic Hab seco binder in a couple blends (before WLT "found another bale" of the latter and I thought it wouldn't be available). So far I've only found that C98 seco seems to bring out the worst in the viso, so I swapped the blend from half a ligero, 1S, 2V to 2S, 1V. Definitely better, maybe next I'll try just leaving out the viso. In any case, I've enjoyed several sticks with the same ratios with C99 (with CVC2006 seco) so I definitely don't find it tastes the same - some can be much worse than others lol

Haha, ya, that's true, it's always possible to get worse. But there are so many factors to that besides the names of the leaves. Time of day. RH of the stick vs the environment, bad leaves, bad ratios, etc. For what it's worth I've pretty much abandoned items called viso. I just use seco and ligero. "Seco" is a big part of the plant, often including the "viso" part. Simplify.

 

[webmost]

Haha, ya, that's true, it's always possible to get worse. But there are so many factors to that besides the names of the leaves. Time of day. RH of the stick vs the environment, bad leaves, bad ratios, etc. For what it's worth I've pretty much abandoned items called viso. I just use seco and ligero. "Seco" is a big part of the plant, often including the "viso" part. Simplify.

But the visos tend to be smaller & flimsier, which is often an advantage when blending corona gauge & under.
Burn well & proportion better.

 

[blisscigarco]

But the visos tend to be smaller & flimsier, which is often an advantage when blending corona gauge & under.
Burn well & proportion better.

True, but somehow it hasn't been an issue. I think I select the thinner more flexible ligero leaves, as needed for the vitola, and often roll the ligero as two separate half-leaf tubes, or just fold them in, or whatever the heck it takes to get the thing done as well as I can figure out how to. I've been rolling 6.5 x 28 sticks with ligero in there, no problem. Sometimes before I roll a half-leaf of ligero I'll cut away the middle bulge with a vertical slice, tube the remaining rectangle and then lay in the cut off bit as needed to fill'er out. Whatever it takes.

 

[Jim D]

Way back when we submitted to BMP for the home rollers contest I did well with a simple seco and ligero blend....
Sometimes, simple just works.