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What's in a College Degree?

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OK i am not knocking anyone with a degree or getting one. I have great experience under my belt. but everyone wants someone with a degree now a day. What is the deal with this??? Anyone HR here that can fill me in? By the way just got laid off... and pretty mad about it...lol Thanks friends... i am gonna go have a cigar now. just my little rant
 
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Maduro I understand your frustration that must be tough we got your back and if you need someone to rant to we are all beyond happy to be here to listen.

As for your question regarding a degree... The reason companies want someone with a degree is because they have the knowledge of all current laws, principles, and fundamentals of the given position. This makes it easier when it comes to training new ppl and also if any of the above was to change (laws etc.) they will only need a refresher course to come up to speed with the changes. This saves companies money whereas if the person has no degree they cannot take the refresher course because they don't have the fundamental background.

I am an accountant and I am working towards my CGA designation (Certified General Accountant) and when I was hired there were 10 candidates with more experience then I have but I was the highest level in CGA so it was beneficial to the company to take me in as I was closer to the end of schooling and had more of the needed fundamentals.

I hope this helps you out and remember when god closes a door he opens a window.

Cheers,
JM


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Dustin,

I'm sorry to hear about the Layoff, brother.

I work in a field where the degree doesn't really mean jack crap. The certifications sure as hell do though. And even then, most companies want you to prove yourself before really any consideration.

But being in IT, and supporting the customers that I do, I have noticed that the degree bit is played everywhere else. most dont care about it, but HR sure as hell likes to say that they've been hiring a bunch of college grads this year, as apposed to someone with actual experience.

Man, I'm really sorry about that. I know you have a lot of shit going on, and Ill be thinkin about you. Hope things change around bro.

-Chrisso
 
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Sorry to hear that man, totally sucks.

Job descriptions are typically written by HR, not necessary the person who needs the position filled. It's easy to slap a degree requirement on a job description as just another way to thin candidates. If you have the experience however, I would encourage you to apply. I'd take someone with experience every time.

For entry level jobs, college degrees show employers that the person has basic knowledge, is willing to conform, and a certain level of maturity. So I want someone with a bachelor's or military experience. If you have a bachelor's degree you have confirmed that you can read, write, and follow directions; the employer typically will teach you the rest.

Best of luck on the job search.
 
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I'm not HR, but I've managed people for many years and done a fair amount of hiring. Some thoughts....

1. High unemployment means this is buyers' market. Screening for degrees skinnies the list quickly.
2. Hiring 22 year old with a degree probably means lower salary cost than hiring you.
3. Manager can assume with some degree of certainty that degree holder is a 'learner', thus more likely to be 'trainable'.
4. Degree indicates commitment and dedication attributes.
5. Not sure what field you're talking about, but recent degree in field might indicate current knowledge - even unrelated degree might indicate higher comfort level with current technology.
6. More apt to be comfortable with change - almost certainly true of younger, recent grads
7. Almost certainly would have had some successful class work in language, writing, communication.

I'm thinking largely of recent college graduates here, but, many of this still applies to anyone who stuck it out and got their degree. Another class of applicants that gets an instant foot closer to being in the door are servicemen and women who left military on honorable terms. They bring similar dedication and commitment traits, but may not necessarily be as good with 'change'.
 
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Dustin,

I'm sorry to hear about the Layoff, brother.

I work in a field where the degree doesn't really mean jack crap. The certifications sure as hell do though. And even then, most companies want you to prove yourself before really any consideration.

But being in IT, and supporting the customers that I do, I have noticed that the degree bit is played everywhere else. most dont care about it, but HR sure as hell likes to say that they've been hiring a bunch of college grads this year, as apposed to someone with actual experience.

Man, I'm really sorry about that. I know you have a lot of shit going on, and Ill be thinkin about you. Hope things change around bro.

-Chrisso
Sorry to hear that Dustin. Keep your head up and hope good things are coming around the corner for you.

I'm IT as well and like Chrisso said, certifications tend to rule things and it's funny how badly the HR folks want to bring in people with a degree - but I've noticed it doesn't really even have to be anything related to the field. I work with people that have degrees in Psychology, Education, Religious Studies.... you name it. One of the best IT Security guys I know actually has his degree in Anthropology! It does show you can learn and stick with things to a lot of employers or hiring managers. Me -- I think the degree is great and all - but I'd take someone in a heartbeat who has been around and has a ton of different experiences. Someone who knows how to handle things when they come up, and can think through things. To me, that stuff is even more important. I also work with some "book smart" guys that can't troubleshoot their way outta a box.
 
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If I were in HR, and I came across someone with a college degree it lets me know a few things:
1. They can see something through, and are willing to go through the rigors to accomplish their goal.
2. They are capable of understanding and retaining information.
3. They made education a priority in their lives, which means they are committed to bettering their lot and place in life as this shows ambition.

I am not saying you can't be these things without a degree, but having a degree gives off the perception of these things. Ultimately, perception is more important than reality as how you appear to others affects you getting a job or a promotion.
-Alan
 
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Yeah, I don't get it either. Not if you have experience anyway. My dad worked in finance for about 25 years then got laid off. Between being in his mid 50's and not having a degree he's been out of work for close to 5 years.
 

mdwest

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HR doesnt (or shouldnt) really play a role in this... HR is a support function.. the Hiring Manager sets the standard for the person he wants to hire.. depending on the company, HR can have a constricted, or an expanded role.. and may participate in the recruiting function.. and may be the first "gate" to get past with your resume.. but at the end of the day, an HR rep is not the subject matter expert on all roles/responsibilities/duties in the company... they cant possibly know everything it takes to be a successful janitor.. as well as a successful project manager.. as well as a successful director of finance and accounting.. as well as a successful IT security manager.. as well as a successful widget engineer... etc..etc..

Hiring managers set hiring standards.. HR simply performs a role in the hiring process and helps (or hinders) your ability to actually get to the hiring manager to have your resume reviewed or get an actual interview..

Any manager worth his salt isnt going to let someone in another department... ESPECIALLY HR.. dictate to him what certifications, education, experience, etc.. someone needs to have to get hired.. At the end of the day, the hiring manager is going to be held responsible for the performance of both the individual and the department/unit/section/whatever that the person is hired into..

Different hiring managers will have different reasons for requiring a degree.. or not..

for many.. its a simple discriminator.. a degree isnt really required to perform the actual work.. but it tells the manager all of the things already listed above by others... right now its a buyers market... a degree (or lack of one) can act as a filter and help me bring the stack of 25 applicants down to 12 for review... other discriminators might help me further reduce that stack to 4 or 5.. once I get the stack whittled down that low.. I can start to make decisions about who to bring in for interviews..

for others the degree is an absolute requirement.. you arent going to hire a "doctor" that doesnt have an MD.. or a senior research physicist on a nuclear project without a PhD.. or an attorney without a JD..etc.. you also arent going to hire a guy to design a bridge that doesnt have a PE.. which requires a degree in engineering to sit for... etc..

For others still.. the degree may not be seen as a requirement to do the job.. but their customers expect or demand it.. so they make it a hiring standard.. this for example is a HUGE deal for companies that deal with the federal government.. the fed govt wont award certain contracts unless the people assigned have degrees.. just this past week for example I put together a bid for a contract that is going to be managed by the DoD.. the work is IT focused and calls for several very high end skills, certifications, and qualifications.. the IT guys that have posted in this thread are right.. in the IT world degrees tend not to matter nearly as much as certifications and experience.. this isnt typically true when dealing with the fed gov though.. the government was very clear on the work I am speaking to above.. every single person assigned to the contract has to hold a bachelor degree (they could care less what field it is in.. you just have to have one).. hold a security clearance (even though the contract is not classified and involved no cleared work).. and a laundry list of certifications..

In a nutshell, the government knows the certifications are whats important for being able to actually understand and accomplish the work.. but they are using the security clearance and degree requirements as discriminators.. if you have a clearance they know you have passed a credit check, a criminal background check, etc..etc.. its no guarantee that youre not a dirtbag.. but its a guarantee youre not a felon and likely arent in a financial situation where you would be distracted from work, etc.. if you have the degree they know you are likely a little bit older (probably took you a few years to get the degree before or after you started stacking up certifications).. hopefully are a little more mature.. etc...

so they force those standards on their vendors.. in order to get what they are looking for/want (which is often not necessarily what is best for them)..

Ive seen this in the private sector as well.. where large companies will push down standards to the companies that provide them services and products that force them to add in requirements to their hiring standards..... the vendor companies dont HAVE to meet the standard.. but the company requiring services/products dont have to buy from them either.. so the choice ends up being 1) walk away from the work/opportunity.. or 2) hire the type of people they want us to that will be handling their product/service..
 

Hoshneer

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My wife got degree, worst mistake of our lives..... Now 35,000 in debt and she said she didn't learn shit. All of her skills have come from experience. I will say there are certain things college is good for just not things like business degrees.

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Its an expensive ass piece of paper.

This past Dec. I finished college and am somewhat happy I went but I could have taught myself mostly everything they did. I went to an accelerated college that is year round (11 weeks on 2 weeks off). You get things shoved at you so fast and move on to the next thing that you don't really get to immerse yourself into that subject very much. Now I know that this isn't every college but it kinda sucked that it felt like we dabbled in everything and mastered nothing. Also some professors just sucked, they taught by sending us to on-line tutorials.... yeah I paid you how much to directly me to something to searched on google...thanks.

Experience will ring over a piece of paper though, I know you got laid off but did you have good standings with them? Would they write you an personal recommendation? I was also fortunate enough to hold to design jobs while in school so I was about to get a little over 2 years exp. before graduating.
 
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My wife got degree, worst mistake of our lives..... Now 35,000 in debt and she said she didn't learn shit. All of her skills have come from experience. I will say there are certain things college is good for just not things like business degrees.

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Yup. My wife's degree cost us over $25k in debt and after she lost her job four years ago it hasn't helped her at all. While she was studying, I helped with her homework and couldn't see much of a real world application in most of it. In fact, from what I saw, there were many people in her graduating class that could barely write a coherent sentence. While the perception about the education is there, it truly is nothing but perception. I still encourage my children to get a degree, but I have serious reservations about whether they are worth the cost.
 

mwlabel

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I feel the title and the discussion have gone two totally different paths.

One of the main problems I'm seeing here throughout my college experience (and elsewhere) is how many people are doing it to get a job... to prepare for a job... etc.

No. While that can be an aspect to it, people should be here to learn first and foremost.

I am currently getting a degree that is absolutely worthless now that I've delayed/cancelled law school. But I have also learned a whole lot of important shit that has changed how I view the world. I'm also paying for my education in cash, and not putting myself in debt... which changes things a lot.


As far as it relates to jobs... it depends. Some jobs need a degree and are easily worth it. Others have no reason to get a degree, and experience is the sole factor.

What's in a college degree? For me, as it stands, a life changing education that won't get me a job... and I'm okay with that.
 
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As an accountant I can say that I wouldn't know shit if I hadn't gone to college and gotten my degree. I wouldn't even know where to start for a lot of my work. I'm in debt, but for me it was worth it.
At least in my field, experience is very valuable but the education is crucial for having enough basic knowledge of the laws and regulations that the work requires. The degree is totally worth it IMVHO...

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strife

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But I have also learned a whole lot of important shit that has changed how I view the world.
And that is exactly where I have a problem with "higher education" which is an entirely different discussion. Important to whom and what agenda?
 

AlohaStyle

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A lot of generalizations going on in this thread, which I understand because people have different experiences. Firstly, having a college degree can always help... all things equal between candidates, the person with a degree will more than likely get the job. Even having a degree in an unrelated field can help. And sorry Rex, college isn't good for business degrees??? Like any degree/program, it really depends on the person and how they apply themselves with the education/program they are going through. If someone gets a Marketing degree and doesn't have any desire to work for a company truly doing market research or other marketing activities, they will fall back on sales or something like that where someone can feel like their degree didn't mean anything. But still, that degree will help. Accounting is a business degree and do you think someone without experience/degree can get a job at a big accounting firm like Deloitte & Touche etc? I know a handfull of people that got a great job straight out of college with business degrees. I'm not ranting on you Rex, just have a lot of experience with business and know a lot of people that have benefited from business degrees.
 

Hoshneer

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Its all good. I think it just depends on the person and that degree. My wife went for a general business degree. There are definitely degrees that are worth the cash. I honestly think it has to do with the degree you want and the person that is getting it. In my wife's field of work it pretty much worthless. In someone else's it is probably valuable. So it really comes down to each individual person. That is a very good point.

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shadowcam

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Love my college degree. Just not the debt. Any white collar job in my area requires a college degree even if the job description doesn't state you don't need one... That piece of paper doesn't guarantee you a job. It can only help with getting you through the door. Everything else depends on how well you interview. I'm not really concerned about what I've learned or retained from school. It is only the means to an end. Cash money y'all $$$.
 
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Looking I'm an accountant. Degrees in business are a must plain and simple. You need a degree to get into anything to do with business as there is alot that needs to be taught in regards to laws and policies. These are things you do not learn from experience cause they are taught judgements. Now are there other job sectors that degrees are not as relevant yes most definitely. But in the position of business it is 110% degree driven because of the changes in laws and policies. We have moved from GAAP principles over to IFRS and there is zero experience that can be had in this move as it has never been done before.

I agree with both sides of this argument but in the end education seems to rule the day.


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sean

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Dustin,

I am really sorry to hear about your situation. As a college guy, I get where you are coming from. How is that? Well, I have seen 6 of my cohorts who are finishing their master's in a highly analytic field with loads of transferable skills all get turned down for jobs for two reasons:

1) No work experience.
2) That Masters demands a higher pay scale.

So even if you have a degree, there are some cases where it doesn't pay...

Let me know if there is anything I can do. I did see a cool job with NOAA where you collect oceanographic data. It paid okay, had no degree requirement, and gets you out on the water for weeks at a time (Nicole didn't like that part, but it wouldn't be much different from what you are doing already).
 
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