Wrapper Issues

[rick12string]

I have been experiencing wrapper problems with some of my cigars but not all. It doesn’t seem to be limited to any particular type wrapper or brand of cigar. The problem is some of the wrappers tend to start flaking or peeling off. Friday night I smoked an RP Fusion torpedo that was in my humidor for about 6-8 months. The wrapper seemed very smooth and the cigar well constructed. Prior to lighting it, I happened to rub my finger slightly across the cigar about mid point and the wrapper lifted up in one big flap as if when it was rolled it was not glued down securely. I have had this happen with other cigars or the wrappers on some had just started to come loose behind the burn. Sometime I’ll see sticks just sitting in my humi and the wrapper is lifted or flaking in certain spots and these cigars have not been handled roughly.

I think I have been pretty good with keeping the RH between 65% and 69%. I am now wondering if the problem could be temperature fluctuations. In the winter months the downstairs room I keep my cigars in can get as low as 64 degrees at night (which also does drop the RH some) and then during the day can get up to 72-74 degrees. That’s sometimes an 8-10 degree change in only a few hours and happens repeatedly throughout those months. Is it possible that this temperature fluctuation can be causing the wrappers to come apart?

Does anyone else have wrapper problems like this? Is it common or an issue that needs to be corrected? It takes away from the smoking experience when you’re trying to hold the wrapper together while you smoke.

Is a consistent temp critical for long term storage of cigars or is some fluctuation acceptable?

I’m turning to the collective knowledge of my brothers here and any input would be greatly appreciated.


I have to get to work now (getting hammered) and will check in later.
Thanks,
Rick

 

[cigarguy71]

I have had this with RP Fusion thank god there is two wrapper on that cigar. I just ripped the other off.

 

[strife]

I have had this with RP Fusion thank god there is two wrapper on that cigar. I just ripped the other off.

The "second wrapper" is actually the binder. It just so happens that the Connecticut leaf used is primarily a wrapper. A fortunate turn for you indeed!

I had a few last week flake or split on me while smoking, at first I assumed they were too moist but after an autopsy I found it was the complete opposite. I've triaged and quarantined any others and placed them in intensive care as I attempt to rehydrate them.

 

[uncelnino]

Rick, this has all the symptoms of low humidity and dry sticks. If the wrapper is flaking off to the touch then these things must be in trouble. Have you calibrated your hygrometer recently. I would start by doing the calibration and then shoot for storing around 70% for a while and see what happens. If you prefer to smoke your sticks at a lower temp then dry box them for a while before you smoke. In terms of long term storage, and I am by no means an expert on this, but the more stable and undisturbed the environment can be, the better off your sticks are for aging. Also, the temperature fluctuation is not a reason for your wrappers to be cracking and coming off, they need water.

Hope that helps a little. Feel free to PM with any other questions.

Dave

 

[rick12string]

Rick, this has all the symptoms of low humidity and dry sticks. If the wrapper is flaking off to the touch then these things must be in trouble. Have you calibrated your hygrometer recently. I would start by doing the calibration and then shoot for storing around 70% for a while and see what happens. If you prefer to smoke your sticks at a lower temp then dry box them for a while before you smoke. In terms of long term storage, and I am by no means an expert on this, but the more stable and undisturbed the environment can be, the better off your sticks are for aging. Also, the temperature fluctuation is not a reason for your wrappers to be cracking and coming off, they need water.

Hope that helps a little. Feel free to PM with any other questions.

Dave

Thanks Dave, as a matter of fact I only started noticing this when I switched to the 65% beads a year ago and I thought that was it at first but it is my understanding that 65% should not cause a problem.

The humi I had the RP Fusion in has 70% beads but the RH usually only gets up to around 67%. When the temp drops it has been as low as 60% but comes back up when the temp get back up around 70 degrees. I have checked my hygros twice with 2 different boveda kits so my readings are good.

The sticks don't seem to be dried out to the touch so I'm not sure if that's it unless they got a little dry and then recovered but the damage was already done. I've thought this all out and it's just got me confused.

 

[cigarguy71]

I am sorry to have to correct you but you are wrong this is from CI.

Rocky Patel Fusion is a sensation. The original concept was to fuse the tastes of the RP Vintage ‘90 with the RP Vintage ‘92, creating what some consider the ultimate connoisseur’s cigar. Countless months, weeks, and days blending and re-blending yielded the finished product. RP Fusion is a luxurious, multi-layered blend with a heady Cuban-esque boldness tempered by a consistent, undeniably creamy, smooth character. It’s got 2 wrappers: a lovely, chestnut-hued, oily Habano wrapper on the outside, concealing a flawless Connecticut leaf underneath. Those who have sampled RP Fusion have proclaimed it to be either the very best, or at minimum among the top of Rocky’s creations to date. This is a hot potato, one to jump on right quick.

The "second wrapper" is actually the binder. It just so happens that the Connecticut leaf used is primarily a wrapper. A fortunate turn for you indeed!

I had a few last week flake or split on me while smoking, at first I assumed they were too moist but after an autopsy I found it was the complete opposite. I've triaged and quarantined any others and placed them in intensive care as I attempt to rehydrate them.

 

[njstone]

I just smoked a Fusion Toro last week--the outer (habano?) wrapper nearly peeled away in one huge piece! I managed to only loose some of it, and just licked the rest down. I smoked just fine, expanded a bit but didn't burst.

I think those outer wrappers on the Fusion are just insanely thin, at least on the larger sizes. I've never had wrapper problems on a Fusion Lancero, though (which is my favorite vitola of the line).

 

[strife]

I am sorry to have to correct you but you are wrong this is from CI.

Rocky Patel Fusion is a sensation. The original concept was to fuse the tastes of the RP Vintage ‘90 with the RP Vintage ‘92, creating what some consider the ultimate connoisseur’s cigar. Countless months, weeks, and days blending and re-blending yielded the finished product. RP Fusion is a luxurious, multi-layered blend with a heady Cuban-esque boldness tempered by a consistent, undeniably creamy, smooth character. It’s got 2 wrappers: a lovely, chestnut-hued, oily Habano wrapper on the outside, concealing a flawless Connecticut leaf underneath. Those who have sampled RP Fusion have proclaimed it to be either the very best, or at minimum among the top of Rocky’s creations to date. This is a hot potato, one to jump on right quick.

CI is correct, it does use 2 wrappers but the Connecticut is technically the binder. Check some more sources. No worries it's still one of RP's better smokes IMO. :smokingbo

 

[Craig Mac]

RP's are one the few brands I have had wrapper issues with, as well as a good friend of mine who is a RP freak. It has only happened to me with the Vintage and Fusion lines, as njstone said the wrappers seem very thin on those. I had an LFD Cabinet that exploded on me and several others at an LFD event, which I would think would be a little embarassing for the rep, but he was a great guy and replaced every bad stick with a Double Ligero.

 

[uncelnino]

Hmmmm..... If it were only the Rocky I would just attribute it to poor construction with the double wrapper, however, you say that is not the case. Obviously your hygrometers are good, as you said, 65% is more than adequate for storage, it is what I use. If they were dry in the past and have recovered then there should be no reason for problems unless at some point there was a drastic environmental difference. (Like being dried out and uncared for and then being put into a 65 or 70%, temperature controlled humi) I am not saying you did this, but wrappers especially do not do well with being shocked by a drastic change. Regardless, if it has been a year then the sticks would have plenty of time to recover. Do you take RH readings at different places in your humi to make sure there is enough circulation to cover the whole area?. Do you use fans? What are these stored in? How full are your humis? I am puzzled but now intrigued. Post some pics of your storage/Humidors if you can.

 

[rick12string]

I just smoked a Fusion Toro last week--the outer (habano?) wrapper nearly peeled away in one huge piece! I managed to only loose some of it, and just licked the rest down. I smoked just fine, expanded a bit but didn't burst.

That's exactly what happened to me with the wrapper nj but I'm not sure if it expanded at all.

 

[rick12string]

Hmmmm..... If it were only the Rocky I would just attribute it to poor construction with the double wrapper, however, you say that is not the case. Obviously your hygrometers are good, as you said, 65% is more than adequate for storage, it is what I use. If they were dry in the past and have recovered then there should be no reason for problems unless at some point there was a drastic environmental difference. (Like being dried out and uncared for and then being put into a 65 or 70%, temperature controlled humi) I am not saying you did this, but wrappers especially do not do well with being shocked by a drastic change. Regardless, if it has been a year then the sticks would have plenty of time to recover. Do you take RH readings at different places in your humi to make sure there is enough circulation to cover the whole area?. Do you use fans? What are these stored in? How full are your humis? I am puzzled but now intrigued. Post some pics of your storage/Humidors if you can.

The sticks have never been too dried out to the point that they needed recovery. The lowest the RH ever got was around 60-61% and that was when the temperature dropped over night as I stated above during the cold months. Then by mid morning the temp was up again and the RH was around 65%. Even at 60% I was told that shouldn't harm the cigars so that's why I was thinking the temp swings may have something to do with it and was wondering if it is important to keep a consistent temp as well as RH. I'm thinking an 8 degree swing in temperature almost every day for a few weeks may have had an adverse effect (that whole expand and contract thing).

I've had it happen with Dunhills, RP 1999 Vintage, Excalibur 1066, Oliva Serie G Cameroon and some others.
As far as circulation, I have two 100ct humidors and a 75ct that the cigars with the problems have been in. I don’t think there should be that much of an RH difference in such small environments but I will try putting the hygro in different places just to check. The humidor with the Fusions has the humidification devices on the bottom below the tray so I don’t think the RH would be any lower at the bottom.

strife had a few problems and attributes them to being dry and njstone had problems with the RPs as well as Craig Mac so maybe it’s just something with the thinner wrappers but like you said I don’t think they like being shocked with drastic changes and I think that’s what may be happening with mine during those temp swings. I’m wondering if I may need to go to a wine cooler to regulate the temp better. :bigeyes: