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Xikar Boveda Packs

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Ordered some 65% packs from @PuroCigar a little while back. Just swapped out the ones I had in my wineador to charge and put these in. They are Xikar branded. The ones I had in previously that were just Boveda branded were reading spot on 65 in both hygrometers. These Xikar branded ones have them reading 67%. Anyone had experience with Bovedas being 2% off either the Xikar branded or not?


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I added a couple new sticks but have never seen it jump %2. I had been using 6 packs in my CC-100. I took 2 of these Xikar ones out but a day later and still at %67. I'll give a couple more days and see what happens. I know it's only a couple % but I'm anal like that. May just throw the other ones right back in after they are done recharging.


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I'll most likely use the Xikar ones during the winter when the temp drops in my basement causing the RH to drop about 2 points. Should put it right at 65. Just about got my other ones charged back up to swap them out.


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I'm a bit of a skeptic. While the manufacturers say their products are perfect, I think the accuracy is more likely plus or minus 2%. Also remember the hygrometers read in 1% increments. So if the RH was 65.5 then it may read 65 or it may read 66. There is a 1% difference right there and that's assuming the hygrometer is perfect.
I don't worry about a 2% difference, but that's just me.
 
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I'm a bit of a skeptic. While the manufacturers say their products are perfect, I think the accuracy is more likely plus or minus 2%. Also remember the hygrometers read in 1% increments. So if the RH was 65.5 then it may read 65 or it may read 66. There is a 1% difference right there and that's assuming the hygrometer is perfect.
I don't worry about a 2% difference, but that's just me.
I agree. But I know the others I have hold right at 65% so I just prefer to use those until winter comes.


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Xikar established a long-term partnership with Boveda in July 2016. Product is still made by Boveda and the only change is packaging with Xikar on it. There should be no difference in performance.
Boveda packs Rh specification tolerance per Bovida: "Every Boveda RH is accurate to +/- 1% in an air tight environment, which humidors are not."
Rh is inversely related to temperature (temp higher, Rh drops / temp lower, Rh rises), but with Boveda pack's 2-way system, it should adjust for the temperature change and maintain the Rh +/- 1% so this should not be a factor.
I know this isn't an answer to your issue, but thought I would at least throw in the company specs.
 
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Xikar established a long-term partnership with Boveda in July 2016. Product is still made by Boveda and the only change is packaging with Xikar on it. There should be no difference in performance.
Boveda packs Rh specification tolerance per Bovida: "Every Boveda RH is accurate to +/- 1% in an air tight environment, which humidors are not."
Rh is inversely related to temperature (temp higher, Rh drops / temp lower, Rh rises), but with Boveda pack's 2-way system, it should adjust for the temperature change and maintain the Rh +/- 1% so this should not be a factor.
I know this isn't an answer to your issue, but thought I would at least throw in the company specs.
I've always wondered that if the Boveda adjusts for temperature, what exactly does that mean. If it is a 65% Boveda and the temperature is 70 F and then the temp drops to 65 F does the Boveda keep it at 65% RH relative to the new temperature, which would be much wetter than at 70 F. The amount of moisture in the air at lower temperatures is significantly higher to obtain the same "relative" humidity. The cigars would be wetter at a lower temperature if it is the same RH.

I wonder the same thing about hygrometers. If it reads 65% RH at 70 F then will it then read 78% at 66 F ? My experience says no but science says it should. Warmer air holds more water so it takes less to obtain the same "relative" humidity.
 
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I've always wondered that if the Boveda adjusts for temperature, what exactly does that mean. If it is a 65% Boveda and the temperature is 70 F and then the temp drops to 65 F does the Boveda keep it at 65% RH relative to the new temperature, which would be much wetter than at 70 F. The amount of moisture in the air at lower temperatures is significantly higher to obtain the same "relative" humidity. The cigars would be wetter at a lower temperature if it is the same RH.

I wonder the same thing about hygrometers. If it reads 65% RH at 70 F then will it then read 78% at 66 F ? My experience says no but science says it should. Warmer air holds more water so it takes less to obtain the same "relative" humidity.
You're missing the point of "relative." That is the amount of water in the air relative to the amount it can hold. Colder air holds less water, so 65% Rh at 65° is less water than 65% at 70°.
 
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You're missing the point of "relative." That is the amount of water in the air relative to the amount it can hold. Colder air holds less water, so 65% Rh at 65° is less water than 65% at 70°.
I agree. So if your Boveda packs are holding it at 65% and your hygrometer is reading 65% then how is that affected by temperature? As you say, air holds less water when it is cooler so if the temperature went up and it was still 65% rh in your humidor then there would actually be MORE water in the air and therefore more in the cigars.
I'm not preaching, I'm just trying to get this straight in my head because as I see it, it is the the actual amount of moisture in a cigar that affects it and not a relative amount based on temperature.
 
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Please ignore my previous posts arguing about "absolute moisture content". While my explanation was accurate, I have since gone back to review a thread I started 2 years ago on the same subject. I had forgotten that the humidification of tobacco is not so straight forward and that RH is the defining factor, not absolute moisture content. If you're a science geek you can read the following which was posted by Mr. McSquirelly in 2015;
( and sorry for hijacking this thread )

The "Variable" Humidity Myth...


Many self-proclaimed "authorities" have been making a serious mistake of confusing moisture content with relative humidity lately. At least one well-known Cigar distributor has added strength to this legend by distributing a table recommending different relative humidities at different temperatures. Don't fall for this "urban legend"! Cigars should be kept at 70% RH REGARDLESS of temperature or you WILL ruin them...

The modern myth of varying humidity with temperature is based on an entirely false premise. Cigars don't care about absolute moisture content. They need just enough moisture to keep the tobacco pliable, but not so much to swell it. This occurs at 70-73% REGARDLESS of temperature.

Tobacco should be kept at a relative humidity which just keeps the leaves pliable without swelling them. Since that pliability is based on the interaction of the cellular membranes with the air surrounding them, relative humidity--not absolute moisture content--is what's important. This isn't chemistry, it's mechanics - on a cellular level. Ideally, the correct point is 70-73% regardless of temperature. At 70% relative humidity (a measure which by definition is independent of temperature) cigar leaves become pliable without swelling. At 75% or higher, the cells begin to swell; at 68% or lower, they can become brittle. These points are regardless of the ambient temperature or the absolute moisture content.

Does it make any sense to a rational person to keep their cigars at close to 100% humidity at 60 degrees? Anyone living in cold climates can attest to the fact that at 60 deg, their cigars are perfect at 70%, and (as they would at any temperature) their cigars are prone to mold and swelling at humidities above 80%. Those living in the tropics will tell you the same thing - their cigars MUST be kept at 70% humidity at storage temperatures of 80 degrees. According to "the table", those cigars should be at 50% humidity? I'll tell you what: If the humidity drops below 68%, your cigars will become dry and crack - I couldn't even imagine how badly dried out they'd be at 50%!

Try it yourself. The "logic" of varying RH with temp falls apart in the real world. Moisture content is NOT why we keep cigars at 70% humidity...

Here's a more scientific explanation debunking the myth of varying humidity from David E. Patton, Ph.D. at the Department of Physiology, UCLA School of Medicine...

"There has been extensive discussion on A.S.C. concerning the effects of temperature on humidity and its application to proper cigar storage. Much of the confusion concerning these concepts comes from not understanding what is happening at the molecular level. My goal is to explain some of the relevant concepts and then to put the concepts together in such a way as to give an intuitive understanding of how they relate to cigar storage.

Cigars are made from tobacco leaves. Tobacco leaves (like most plant material) consist primarily of carbohydrates and proteins. Protein and carbohydrate molecules contain many binding sites for water molecules. A certain proportion of the water binding sites need to be occupied by water molecules in order for the tobacco leaves to be adequately pliable, to burn properly and to age properly. So when we think about humidity as it relates to cigar storage, the most relevant factor to consider is: Are the correct proportion of water binding sites occupied? Water molecules bind to other molecules via hydrogen bonds. Van der Waals interactions also participate. This applies to water bound to protein and carbohydrate molecules (e.g. tobacco leaves) or to other water molecules (e.g. liquid water). For the purposes of this discussion, water bound to tobacco leaves will be treated like liquid water.

Temperature is the main factor determining whether a water molecule will be more likely to be in either the gas or liquid (or bound) phases. This is because at higher temperatures, water molecules (like any other molecule) will have more kinetic energy. The more kinetic energy a molecule has, the higher its probability of being in the gas phase. This is because it will have sufficient kinetic energy to break out of the hydrogen bonds and Van der Waals interactions that would otherwise keep it bound. At lower temperatures molecules have less kinetic energy so when they collide with a carbohydrate molecule, for example, its kinetic energy is insufficient to break away from it. The important point here is that at higher temperatures, a water molecule is more likely to be in the gas phase and less likely to be bound. At lower temperatures a water molecule is more likely to be bound and less likely to be in the gas phase.

Another point that needs to be explained here is the concept of relative humidity. Simply stated, relative humidity is the ratio of the concentration of water in the gas phase divided by the maximal concentration of water the air can hold (the saturating concentration) at a given temperature. Air holds more water at higher temperatures. Therefore, if you hold the relative humidity constant and increase the temperature, the concentration of water molecules in the gas phase will increase. If you think about this superficially you may think that because the concentration of water molecules increases in the gas phase as you increase the temperature (holding relative humidity constant)that your cigars will become over-humidified. This is WRONG. Remember, as you increase the temperature, the water molecules are less likely to be bound to the tobacco and more likely to be in the gas phase. Thus, to keep the same proportion of water binding sites in the tobacco occupied by water molecules, the concentration of water molecules in the gas phase must be increased when temperature is increased."


Again, cigars should be stored at 70 - 73% relative humidity, regardless of temperature. Period.
 
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