so who do we believe about egypt?

[milo]

Michael: How bad do you think it's gonna be?

Clemenza: Pretty goddam bad. Probably all the other Families will line up against us. That's all right. These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood. Been ten years since the last one. You know, you gotta stop them at the beginning. Like they should have stopped Hitler at Munich, they should never let him get away with that, they was just asking for trouble.

(Quote from Godfather I; for educational purposes only).

 

[amsgpwarrior]

I think the nuke scenario is a little too far fetched. You have to remember that if you are daring enough to use them you better get ready to have them drop on you as well. I don't think anyone in that region wants that to happen.

The brotherhood are radicals but I don't think that they would go to that extent to try once again attacking Israel from all sides. They know exactly how it felt the last time they tried to do that and all of the countries involved got an a**whooping that wouldn't quit, along with losing land to the Israelis. I believe if they tried they would lose again (especially do to our backing) and I don't think that Israelis will be nice enough to give back the land that they would steal again. Plus, the Israeli's would just punish the Palestinians for the attacks and then again they would be crying to their neighbors whom don't give a sh** about them anyways.

The ONLY reason we give a rats a** what happens over their is because we don't want to disrupt the oil flow out of that region. Other than that there is absolutely no interest in that region. If we stop our dependence on oil we can stop being held hostage by these forces over there.

 

[hdroadglide]

i think the nuke option is far fetched, too. but, i also don't believe that israel is the same country it was when attacked years ago. nor can they count on the current administration for unlimited support.
as far as the oil, yes, we are dependent. do we get any oil from the only country we can count on over there (israel)nope. did we get a jackcrapdrop of oil from iraq? hell no. have we done one single thing about drilling here? double hell no. just shut down rigs in the gulf due to the spill. until gas goes back up above $4 a gallon and the people start screaming for us to start using our own supplies, the govt will sit on it's hands.

 

[amsgpwarrior]

Agreed. Can't argue with you there. I'm doing everything in my power to reduce my oil consumption as much as possible so we won't be slaves to these people. Hopefully everyone will try and do the same,.......

,......or buy oil stocks because they are going to skyrocket!

 

[milo]

I think the nuke scenario is a little too far fetched. You have to remember that if you are daring enough to use them you better get ready to have them drop on you as well. I don't think anyone in that region wants that to happen.

The brotherhood are radicals but I don't think that they would go to that extent to try once again attacking Israel from all sides. They know exactly how it felt the last time they tried to do that and all of the countries involved got an a**whooping that wouldn't quit, along with losing land to the Israelis. I believe if they tried they would lose again (especially do to our backing) and I don't think that Israelis will be nice enough to give back the land that they would steal again. Plus, the Israeli's would just punish the Palestinians for the attacks and then again they would be crying to their neighbors whom don't give a sh** about them anyways.

The ONLY reason we give a rats a** what happens over their is because we don't want to disrupt the oil flow out of that region. Other than that there is absolutely no interest in that region. If we stop our dependence on oil we can stop being held hostage by these forces over there.

Israel did not steal land from Egypt and does not practice collective punishment on the Arab people living in the Palestinian Territories, especially as a result of policy choices being made by Arab leaders in the region.

Additionally, even though oil is tangentially related to our current interests in the Middle East, it is no longer our only interest in the Middle East.

 

[CAJoe]

We cannot be blind to what Radical Islam brings. We should do what we can to prevent something like that from taking power. We do not want to fail as we did in Iran. The threat of today comes from radicals bent on destroying us. It is in our intrests to do what we can politically, monetarily, and covertly to keep radical Islam from ruling another country. Period.

 

[strife]

The ONLY reason we give a rats a** what happens over their is because we don't want to disrupt the oil flow out of that region. Other than that there is absolutely no interest in that region. If we stop our dependence on oil we can stop being held hostage by these forces over there.

Why does everyone keep saying that? We import 70% of our oil from these 5 countries and only one of them is from that region and their oil sucks so bad it costs a fortune to refine!

Crude Oil Imports (Top 5 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)

Nov-10, Oct-10, YTD 2010, Nov-09, YTD 2009

• CANADA: 1,975, 1,840, 1,963, 2,018, 1,928
  
• MEXICO: 1,229, 1,178, 1,132, 951, 1,095
  
• SAUDI ARABIA: 1,119, 1,114, 1,081 847, 991
  
• VENEZUELA: 884, 887, 920 793, 968
  
• NIGERIA: 806, 812, 982, 948, 753

LINK

 

[amsgpwarrior]

I acknowledged that our oil mostly came from Mexico and Canada. But like I said before, our allies oil comes from those areas. If your for supporting our allies and keeping their economies strong then you better be worried about the supply of oil out of that region. Only 4.5% of oil in the world passes through the Suez and look at the impact of oil prices in the last couple of days. To say that the supply coming out of the region is not significant to us is preposterous. Plus our American born gigantic oil companies are worried about it. Don't forget that they have contracts on large amounts of land out there and pump oil out in that region. Just because they sell that oil to other countries rather than to us doesn't make the oil from there not important.

If you want to stop radical Islamic hatred then we should not support Israel any longer and pull out all our troops from their holy lands. But that isn't realistic.

And Israel DID take land from Egypt when they were attacked. They controlled the Suez and the Sinai Peninsula before giving it back to them as part of a peace bargaining agreement. They destroyed Egypt's entire air force basically in one day and crossed the Sinai and took it over (along with the Golan Heights from Syria). With Netanyahu at the helms they won't be so nice to do that a second time. Ariel Sharon was noticeably famous for bulldozing Palestinian neighborhoods to the ground in retrobution for Palestinian attacks. Then he would build a new Jewish settlement.

Other than oil and natural gas, what REAL interests (other than protecting Israel) do we have over there?

I believe we should have a hand over there but we got to make sure we are not seen meddling. We got to be as secretive as ever. Unfortunately the CIA isn't always the greatest at doing that, but we can try.

 

[Deemancpa]

Sorta like you can vote for your candidate but the winner has been predetermined. We can support one repressive regime after another but can't begin to end the embargo!

 

[amsgpwarrior]

Before the Saudi's found oil, Texas was the largest market for oil, and at that time the US didn't give a crap what was going on over there.

 

[strife]

I acknowledged that our oil mostly came from Mexico and Canada. But like I said before, our allies oil comes from those areas. If your for supporting our allies and keeping their economies strong then you better be worried about the supply of oil out of that region.

You're assuming we still have allies, last I heard the whole world thought we were a joke!

 

[strife]

Maybe a major shake up is whats needed over there. Enough so to bust up the OPEC agreement and start some true competition that would actually lower the cost of oil. Sometimes I think that we'd have been better off years ago letting the tribes settle their own disputes.

 

[amsgpwarrior]

Yea most of them probably do think we are a joke. But it's not like they are any better though. I think we (the US) are kind of like that dumb jock that everyone in high school used to made fun of in school but now plays in the pros while his former classmates just sit and watch now.

 

[milo]

amsgpwarrior,
Yes, Israel did destroy egypts military; they too, advanced into the Sinai and occupied it following the six day war. Where you are incorrect, is in the assertion that Israel's lawful seizure and occupation of the Sinai was not stealing. Oh, and, war is hell--people die, land is lost; but this is no reason to revise history.

 

[amsgpwarrior]

Sorry, poor choice of words. Trust me, I know how bad war is. I take care of wounded soldiers on a daily basis.

 

[Burning Man]

I don't know how the Mubarak can put a good spin on his use of rent-a-thugs to push out the people. Roughing up the press doesn't earn you any points either.

 

[hdroadglide]

the truth is, there will never be a real democratic government anywhere over there. sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils. the muslim brotherhood has announced that if they will do away with the treaty with israel and then close the suez canal. mubarak still look bad?????

 

[milo]

I read the same thing about the Brotherhood announcing that they will end the treaty with Israel and limit Suez usage; however, I think (hope) that this is not the official stance, and more likely just the rambling of an overzealous politician "peacocking" rather than the reality. The swift radicalization of Egyptian policy will isolate it from both the west and the majority of the Arab world. Mubarak is bad, and the brotherhood may be worse; but, these things have a tendency of working themselves out over time. I think that the most important things for the US to do is to be patient and keep an open mind. Many of our sworn enemies have had a history of softening up when push comes to shove.

 

[JPManning]

Prop up a dictator - it gets blamed on the US
Replace a dictator with a useless, extremist-infested democracy that will set up a caliphate - it gets blamed on the US

Please don't say their dysfunction is our fault. Arab states are caught between despots and extremists, I'll choose the despot hands down since at least he's reasonable as long as he can hold power.

 

[GoingPostal]

Well doesn't seem that Mubarak speach helped calm the protesters, think it angred them more. this is going to end once the military chooses a side, and if the muslim brotherhood gets control the whole region is going get real shakey