AF Don Carlos Vs Opus X, then vs now

[Groucho]

In the mid-late 1990s Opus X were good but not better than the Don Carlos IMHO - I smoked #3 or the Robustos of each. Somehow the DC just was so much better all around flavor wise - (does anything smoke better, have better construction, draw, than an AF?). But even if they were the same price I'd have gone for the Donnie C.

A few years later I stopped smoking domestic smokes as I moved to a "legal to smoke Cubans country" in 2002.

In the recent past few years, 2018 to present, on trips to the US I made my way several times to the J&R Montecristo lounge in Whippany NJ, great place to buy and smoke and eat and drink. Purchased some DC and Opus X (#3 and Rubustos), singles. I smoked about one of each during the summer of 2020.

I noticed a little difference in each, still liked the Don Carlos better but there seemed to be less richness in the flavors compared to what I remember in the 90s. For the Opus X too.

Am I imagining this difference? Maybe the blend or tobacco harvests have changed? Maybe my mouth is more accustomed to Cubans?

Also I recall reading that the peak aging for domestic cigars is only one year and after that they don't get any better, some might even decline flavor wise. I doubt the AFs I am talking about had more than a few months of box age -and- by the time I smoked them they had only 4 months more (Feb to July 2020).

Like Cubans and wines and even single malt scotches the variance in flavor is noticeable between different harvests - but generally speaking cigars such as AF, if changing, would do so slowly over time so that one would not notice too much of a diff if they smoked these regularly and the changes were subtle. But after a 20 hiatus...

Thoughts?

 

[Texican]

Following this one. I am a HUGE fan of the Don Carlos line. Have never tried an Opus, but I finally bought two last month with the intention of aging them a year on the advice of some of the brethren. Definitely interested in hearing from folks who have tried both.

 

[Boudie]

Man, I can't remember where I was living in the 90's much the less how a cigar tasted! As likely as any other reason your palate has changed but 25 yrs is a long time and I'm sure the way the tobacco is grown and processed has also changed a bit.

 

[Jakethesnake]

I guess I need to try a thinner don. I had one recently and was pretty let down. I could google search and tell you what the vitola was but I thought it was very muted. I think I have 1 more laying around.

 

[the camaro show]

I’ve also never had an opus but I do have 2 don Carlos I’ve been aging. Could just be your palate at the time. I know many cigars I thought were out of the world the first time to come back and revisit later on that were just decent, very few I’ve thought were still amazing smokes. Of course there’s been sticks I’ve thought were okay the first time and second and third time liked then more probably due to age. Most NCs come ready to smoke and aged from the factory unlike CCs so normally NCs can lose a lot of zing after quite a few years of aging. Some blends hold up better then others.

 

[Groucho]

Man, I can't remember where I was living in the 90's much the less how a cigar tasted! As likely as any other reason your palate has changed but 25 yrs is a long time and I'm sure the way the tobacco is grown and processed has also changed a bit.

That would make sense (the tobacco thing, not where you lived in the 90s) Maybe before the cigar boom of the late 90s, due to less of a demand, the manufacturers were able to take more care in the overall harvest and production? Who knows. I wish I had more time to just sit and sample and smoke and come to conclusions.

The Don Carlos of the 1990s was the best thing I put in my mouth that wasn't a bottle of booze or attached to a woman.

 

[Alwayslit]

In the mid-late 1990s Opus X were good but not better than the Don Carlos IMHO - I smoked #3 or the Robustos of each. Somehow the DC just was so much better all around flavor wise - (does anything smoke better, have better construction, draw, than an AF?). But even if they were the same price I'd have gone for the Donnie C.

A few years later I stopped smoking domestic smokes as I moved to a "legal to smoke Cubans country" in 2002.

In the recent past few years, 2018 to present, on trips to the US I made my way several times to the J&R Montecristo lounge in Whippany NJ, great place to buy and smoke and eat and drink. Purchased some DC and Opus X (#3 and Rubustos), singles. I smoked about one of each during the summer of 2020.

I noticed a little difference in each, still liked the Don Carlos better but there seemed to be less richness in the flavors compared to what I remember in the 90s. For the Opus X too.

Am I imagining this difference? Maybe the blend or tobacco harvests have changed? Maybe my mouth is more accustomed to Cubans?

Also I recall reading that the peak aging for domestic cigars is only one year and after that they don't get any better, some might even decline flavor wise. I doubt the AFs I am talking about had more than a few months of box age -and- by the time I smoked them they had only 4 months more (Feb to July 2020).

Like Cubans and wines and even single malt scotches the variance in flavor is noticeable between different harvests - but generally speaking cigars such as AF, if changing, would do so slowly over time so that one would not notice too much of a diff if they smoked these regularly and the changes were subtle. But after a 20 hiatus...

Thoughts?

The Fuente's lost a lot of their aged tobacco in 2012 due to a catastrophic fire. I think this has affected their standard lines to a certain extent.

 

[Alwayslit]

That would make sense (the tobacco thing, not where you lived in the 90s) Maybe before the cigar boom of the late 90s, due to less of a demand, the manufacturers were able to take more care in the overall harvest and production? Who knows. I wish I had more time to just sit and sample and smoke and come to conclusions.

The Don Carlos of the 1990s was the best thing I put in my mouth that wasn't a bottle of booze or attached to a woman.

I agree that the DC line back in the 90's was every bit as good as the opus line.

 

[Mikenice81]

I am no expert on the matter. However, I find the Don Carlos is best in the #3 and #4. They seem to pop with a little more flavor intensity, but less complexity. While the Opus X was better in the Robusto or Super Belicoso.

I can't say how either one has changed in twenty years. What I can say is that aging either more than a year shouldn't be an issue. I've had examples from both lines that were three years old and they were still very nice cigars. It could have been storage conditions or any number of things. I would say that I never smoke straight from the shelf at the JR Cigar shops in NC. The cigars always take 2 months just to lose their status as sponges.

 

[Mikenice81]

The Fuente's lost a lot of their aged tobacco in 2012 due to a catastrophic fire. I think this has affected their standard lines to a certain extent.

Didn't they also have a bunch of stock stolen a few years ago?

 

[Capn_Jackson]

I have been wanting to get into the Don Carlos line, and maybe get some #3’s. I think I’ve spent my cigar budget for the time being though. I have a couple 88/Eye of the Shark, but saving those maybe for my birthday. As for Opus X, I have never had one that jumped out to me. I have liked the AF Añejos I’ve smoked, but the Opus X’s, not so much. To be fair, I haven’t had one in almost 10 years, but I did give it several tries. The last time was at a Craps table in Vegas, so I was understandably distracted.
I realize these comments are not helpful at all, just being conversational. Hope you find some definitive insight.

 

[Alwayslit]

Didn't they also have a bunch of stock stolen a few years ago?

Yes, a full shipping container.

 

[Groucho]

I have been wanting to get into the Don Carlos line, and maybe get some #3’s. I think I’ve spent my cigar budget for the time being though. I have a couple 88/Eye of the Shark, but saving those maybe for my birthday. As for Opus X, I have never had one that jumped out to me. I have liked the AF Añejos I’ve smoked, but the Opus X’s, not so much. To be fair, I haven’t had one in almost 10 years, but I did give it several tries. The last time was at a Craps table in Vegas, so I was understandably distracted.
I realize these comments are not helpful at all, just being conversational. Hope you find some definitive insight.

It's hard to concentrate on the smoke when you've got $41 no 10, $41 no 4, $22 inside and a few $ on the hard 10/Hard 4 with hardways working on the come out.

 

[Texican]

It's hard to concentrate on the smoke when you've got $41 no 10, $41 no 4, $22 inside and a few $ on the hard 10/Hard 4 with hardways working on the come out.

I've never hit a big prop bet....but man, you can always tell when someone does because the table goes absolutely NUTS. I usually play it pretty conservative: 6 and 8 with double odds.

 

[Capn_Jackson]

It's hard to concentrate on the smoke when you've got $41 no 10, $41 no 4, $22 inside and a few $ on the hard 10/Hard 4 with hardways working on the come out.

Don’t forget the Field bet and FIRE BETS!!!!!

 

[CigarGavin]

So all that follows is JMHO (AKA nonsense) Ill start by saying my opus experience dates to late 90's (via smokes from 2009-ish) and all others referenced begin in 2008 with a few pre-dated due to acquisitions or post-date to whenever released.

Best Fresh:
1. Don Carlos Edicion limitada
2. Anejo
3. Don Carlos
4. Opus X

Best 3-5 years:
1. Don carlos Edicion limitada
2. Anejo
3. Opus X
4. Don Carlos

Best over 5 years:
1. Anejo
2. Opus X
3. Don Carlos Edicion limitada
4. Don Carlos

I'm not a huge fan of the broad generalization that NC don't need age, or that Cubans are always better aged. I find that we as consumers and judges of cigars get stuck in certain ideas from limited experience and then use it to judge everything else. Cuban cigar have whole years and sometimes multiple years that are known to be less quality or to a lesser standard. We use this to guide purchasing decisions but the consistently among NC's isn't matched ( I say this as someone that has collected and consumed many NC's and ISOM cigars).

To Fuente specifically, they have terrible glue issues, and the bands rarely come off clean. Hemmingways burn "wonky" and most times there cigars are double MRSP. But flavorwise they hit a particular veins that a lot of people lean into due to clout, or preference.

Opus X over that last 20-25 years (limited here to late 90's so just barely make the cut-off) to me at least, has been consistent with the understanding that you sit them down. Back when they where hitting there stride Opus was the top of what Fuente produced. BUT that was only toward the late 90's. First crop sown 1992, and release 1995. Carlito was using as an experiment to showcase Dominican wrappers and with Don Carlos helming the ship I doubt the first time around he said, "use our most prized tobacco for your secret experiment". But after the initial release and CA articles I'm sure it brought it to the forefront over the next few years. Prior to that, the Don Carlos was the highest end regular production cigar they had, see where I'm going with this.... Boost ahead 20 years plus and now the regular release Opus is in a sea of limited but consistent stream of Opus lines (Oro, Angels Share, Destino, Forbidden, Dubai, CCF, Holts, Casa, Lost City, 20th, GOF, Elle Bleu, Prometheus) with each release pushing the crop further and further than before. The lost tobacco in 12' was either for the Angels share specifically or the 100th anniversary of Fuente depending on which Carlito interview you believe. To me it just pushed fresh tobacco out into the mix, and after 10 years I find it hard to imagine that they are still losing sleep over it.

To me the Don carlos ages like a "normal cigar". Smoothing of edges, refinement and melding of flavor, and overall cohesiveness. Ive also seen a drop off in the 5-10 year depending on how they are stored of the flavor. Not negatively, but maybe from the "blenders intent"; loss of spice, or maybe some slightly bitterness that balanced the equation initially. Opus on the other hand doesn't really become Opus until 3-5 years. Its a strong ass cigar that maybe in years past was aged more prior to release and takes time to become balanced. That being said if you like AF and you aren't smoking or aging Anejo or Don carlos EL you may be missing out on the best they have to offer JMHO.

I've also never associated heavy richness to the Opus, may be present but to me was always more dark dried fruits, spice, leather, with heavy cedar and sweetness that ebbed and flowed depending on the age. That being said regarding the amount of "high value" smokes produced, consistently over time, issues with production, and every other factor against creating and maintain great cigars I would say AF is one of a few that seem to hit that nail on the head nearly every damn time and my wallet pays the price.

Sorry for the novel, hopefully it wasn't a waste of a read, I tried to tie it up so may have missed a point or two. as always means nothing, just my word vomit.

 

[Capn_Jackson]

I've never hit a big prop bet....but man, you can always tell when someone does because the table goes absolutely NUTS. I usually play it pretty conservative: 6 and 8 with double odds.

I’ve only ever played once, and I don’t think I will again... because nothing will ever compare. As I say all the time, I’m the luckiest sob you’ve ever met. It was my 30th birthday, ten years ago this coming June. The guy who was rolling hit the point SEVEN damn times, before finally rolling craps. I was making and winning hard bets, backing up every number rolled, all kinds of crazy stuff. It was incredible, almost a spiritual event. I was in a group of 3 couples, and we all did inconceivably well. I think it would be tacky to say how much my wife and I won, publicly, but needless to say, the cigar was not well-tended.

 

[Capn_Jackson]

So all that follows is JMHO (AKA nonsense) Ill start by saying my opus experience dates to late 90's (via smokes from 2009-ish) and all others referenced begin in 2008 with a few pre-dated due to acquisitions or post-date to whenever released.

Best Fresh:
1. Don Carlos Edicion limitada
2. Anejo
3. Don Carlos
4. Opus X

Best 3-5 years:
1. Don carlos Edicion limitada
2. Anejo
3. Opus X
4. Don Carlos

Best over 5 years:
1. Anejo
2. Opus X
3. Don Carlos Edicion limitada
4. Don Carlos

I'm not a huge fan of the broad generalization that NC don't need age, or that Cubans are always better aged. I find that we as consumers and judges of cigars get stuck in certain ideas from limited experience and then use it to judge everything else. Cuban cigar have whole years and sometimes multiple years that are known to be less quality or to a lesser standard. We use this to guide purchasing decisions but the consistently among NC's isn't matched ( I say this as someone that has collected and consumed many NC's and ISOM cigars).

To Fuente specifically, they have terrible glue issues, and the bands rarely come off clean. Hemmingways burn "wonky" and most times there cigars are double MRSP. But flavorwise they hit a particular veins that a lot of people lean into due to clout, or preference.

Opus X over that last 20-25 years (limited here to late 90's so just barely make the cut-off) to me at least, has been consistent with the understanding that you sit them down. Back when they where hitting there stride Opus was the top of what Fuente produced. BUT that was only toward the late 90's. First crop sown 1992, and release 1995. Carlito was using as an experiment to showcase Dominican wrappers and with Don Carlos helming the ship I doubt the first time around he said, "use our most prized tobacco for your secret experiment". But after the initial release and CA articles I'm sure it brought it to the forefront over the next few years. Prior to that, the Don Carlos was the highest end regular production cigar they had, see where I'm going with this.... Boost ahead 20 years plus and now the regular release Opus is in a sea of limited but consistent stream of Opus lines (Oro, Angels Share, Destino, Forbidden, Dubai, CCF, Holts, Casa, Lost City, 20th, GOF, Elle Bleu, Prometheus) with each release pushing the crop further and further than before. The lost tobacco in 12' was either for the Angels share specifically or the 100th anniversary of Fuente depending on which Carlito interview you believe. To me it just pushed fresh tobacco out into the mix, and after 10 years I find it hard to imagine that they are still losing sleep over it.

To me the Don carlos ages like a "normal cigar". Smoothing of edges, refinement and melding of flavor, and overall cohesiveness. Ive also seen a drop off in the 5-10 year depending on how they are stored of the flavor. Not negatively, but maybe from the "blenders intent"; loss of spice, or maybe some slightly bitterness that balanced the equation initially. Opus on the other hand doesn't really become Opus until 3-5 years. Its a strong ass cigar that maybe in years past was aged more prior to release and takes time to become balanced. That being said if you like AF and you aren't smoking or aging Anejo or Don carlos EL you may be missing out on the best they have to offer JMHO.

I've also never associated predominate richness to the Opus, may be present but to me was always more dark dried fruits, spice, leather, with heavy cedar and sweetness that ebbed and flowed depending on the age. That being said regarding the amount of "high value" smokes produced, consistently over time, issues with production, and every other factor against creating and maintain great cigars I would say AF is one of a few that seem to hit that nail on the head nearly every damn time and my wallet pays the price.

Sorry for the novel, hopefully it wasn't a waste of a read, I tried to tie it up so may have missed a point or two. as always means nothing, just my word vomit.

Great info, and a damn fine read.

 

[Rdelia]

First, I absolutely love the Opus X. To me it gives much more complexity and overall body compared to the Don Carlos. I have also had both in many different sizes. I really never understood the Don Carlos hype. I do like the cigar, but only when I am in the mood for a very light smooth experience, which I do crave on occasion.I have some in my humidor now for just that.

I have often wondered if my palate is muted to some flavors offered by the Don Carlos. Because strangely, my least favorite premium cigar is the Ashton Symmetry. Since Ashton is a sister company basically I have always been curious if those cigars offer similar flavors and I am not receiving it. I literally feel like I am just puffing air when smoking that cigar. Also to mention, I love every other Ashton in the lineup.


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[Jakethesnake]

First, I absolutely love the Opus X. To me it gives much more complexity and overall body compared to the Don Carlos. I have also had both in many different sizes. I really never understood the Don Carlos hype. I do like the cigar, but only when I am in the mood for a very light smooth experience, which I do crave on occasion.I have some in my humidor now for just that.

I have often wondered if my palate is muted to some flavors offered by the Don Carlos. Because strangely, my least favorite premium cigar is the Ashton Symmetry. Since Ashton is a sister company basically I have always been curious if those cigars offer similar flavors and I am not receiving it. I literally feel like I am just puffing air when smoking that cigar. Also to mention, I love every other Ashton in the lineup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I got the same experience from the don. Just not enough there for me. I wondered if for myself it’s because I smoke cigars frequently (daily). Like maybe the heavy Nicaraguans I smoke so frequently somehow effect this. Oddly Cubans are typically molding but I can get what I want from MOST of them. Some Connecticut shade cigars are fine with me also.
However my experience with the don is just the exact same thing you mention. I have a single left to try later. I’ll be sure it’s a one cigar the day before type of smoke