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BOTL UPCOMING MAINTENANCE
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AR platforms
- Thread starter Goalee1
- Start date
I have an S&W M&P AR15, and a bushmaster carbon 15. My FIL has a number of AR15s as well. Out of all of them, my favorite is my S&W. I have done a lot to it, so really only the lower half and upper (not including the barrel) are stock. But I can put anything through it without jams or issues, and it stays relatively clean.
Of those: S&W is the only one worth even considering.
You're much better off buying something from somebody like Palmetto State Armory, who is both cheaper and higher quality.
Or you can spend roughly the same as the S&W and get a top-tier rifle like Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, or Colt 6920.
Do a bit of reading over here. Lots of knowledgable people. http://www.m4carbine.net/forum.php
You're much better off buying something from somebody like Palmetto State Armory, who is both cheaper and higher quality.
Or you can spend roughly the same as the S&W and get a top-tier rifle like Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, or Colt 6920.
Do a bit of reading over here. Lots of knowledgable people. http://www.m4carbine.net/forum.php
ChefBoyRG54
BoM Sept '14 & BoY 2014
I've been researching the same purchase and an leaning towards the colt le6920 Alex mentioned.
It's one of the easiest rifles to recommend since it will fill most shooter's needs just fine. It is also fairly priced and readily available.
True. Stick to mil-spec (which Colt is). Commercial is stupid and there is no reason to go that route.
ChefBoyRG54
BoM Sept '14 & BoY 2014
Do you own an ar? If so, which one?
ChefBoyRG54
BoM Sept '14 & BoY 2014
Nice!
something else to consider is a "build" project...
its not hard at all to buy individual parts (that you like/want/prefer) and just build one from the ground up....
both my wifes and my personal M4orgeries are ground up builds that started with stripped lower receivers (one bravo company.. and one double star)..
a couple of inexpensive tools.. and an ability to read a schematic is all it really takes.. you dont need to be a gunsmith....
and you get the added fun of building something custom that meets your very specific wants.... the joy of knowing you did it yourself.. and if you play your cards right.. can save a good bit of money in the process (find major parts like receivers, bolt carrier groups, barrels, etc.. on sale... use the discount program at brownells and get all of your internals between 25-40% off of retail.. etc..)...
if you dont qualify for the discount program at brownells.. let me know.. and Ill order the parts for you
Ive probably got $1000 invested in my wifes M4orgery.. to include optics, sling, white light, etc... and could easily sell it "used" for $1200-$1300... "new" it would probably carry a $1800-$1900 price tag with all the bells and whistles Ive got hung on that thing..
just something to think about...
its not hard at all to buy individual parts (that you like/want/prefer) and just build one from the ground up....
both my wifes and my personal M4orgeries are ground up builds that started with stripped lower receivers (one bravo company.. and one double star)..
a couple of inexpensive tools.. and an ability to read a schematic is all it really takes.. you dont need to be a gunsmith....
and you get the added fun of building something custom that meets your very specific wants.... the joy of knowing you did it yourself.. and if you play your cards right.. can save a good bit of money in the process (find major parts like receivers, bolt carrier groups, barrels, etc.. on sale... use the discount program at brownells and get all of your internals between 25-40% off of retail.. etc..)...
if you dont qualify for the discount program at brownells.. let me know.. and Ill order the parts for you
Ive probably got $1000 invested in my wifes M4orgery.. to include optics, sling, white light, etc... and could easily sell it "used" for $1200-$1300... "new" it would probably carry a $1800-$1900 price tag with all the bells and whistles Ive got hung on that thing..
just something to think about...
Love my Rock River. Great trigger, great quality and lifetime warranty. When it comes to AR's there is one to fit just about any budget. Just stay far away from anything labeled Blackthorne, Vulcan or Hesse. They are just reencarnations of the same company. .complete garbage. Most people also don't realize the majority of AR companies are not actually manufacturing their own lowers or uppers. Some are just parts assemblers and tweek the internals.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2014
- Messages
- 45
I agree on the build project idea. Even if you just build your lower (which is more forgiving), the savings are worthwhile considering you avoid the duplication of parts ie buying a lower with a stock trigger and then adding a geissele, changing the stock, adding a sexier grip etc.
I built my M4 lower on a stripped Bushmaster lower I got for like $80 on sale and then put a custom piston driven Viper upper on it since I could go to his shop when I was still out west.
My SPR was completely built by me on a stripped DPMS lower (sale priced), Giessle SSA trigger (discounted), 18" White Oak Barrel that I got on sale for under $200, and the rest is decked out how I like it. Retail on just those components would be more than I have in the entire project, and I have the benefit of knowing every nook and cranny. A .25 MOA with SS109 is just a side benefit.
I built my M4 lower on a stripped Bushmaster lower I got for like $80 on sale and then put a custom piston driven Viper upper on it since I could go to his shop when I was still out west.
My SPR was completely built by me on a stripped DPMS lower (sale priced), Giessle SSA trigger (discounted), 18" White Oak Barrel that I got on sale for under $200, and the rest is decked out how I like it. Retail on just those components would be more than I have in the entire project, and I have the benefit of knowing every nook and cranny. A .25 MOA with SS109 is just a side benefit.
I've built two now, both on (the now defunct) Sabre lowers rollmarked with a local gun shop's logo.
The first is my "hall clearer", with a RRA middy flat-top upper, RRA BCG, Magpul MOE forend, GG&G flip rear sight, Doublestar LPK and a VLTOR EMOD stock. Also have a Streamlight Polytack for a weapon light. This is a decent shooter, and I used it as my 3-gun rifle for a couple years before I built my second.
Second I built up from parts - including the upper. Upper is built around a BCM upper, BCM bolt, and a Nordic 18" rifle gas Barrel. Muzzle brake is a DPMS Miculek, and it has a Troy Alpha rail (I'll never buy anything else from Troy). Lower wears an A2 stock and a Doublestar LPK with a Chip McCormick 3.5lb flat trigger. Optic is a Burris MTAC 1-4 in a Burris PEPR mount. This is a fast, fast rifle for 3-gun. At 1X, the MTAC acts like a red dot, but it's got enough precision at 4X to reach out a ways. It's sub MOA with a different optic and 69 grain sierra match kings.
Building is not hard at all, and very rewarding. I've helped new AR owners put together about 8 of them now, and they all go together just fine. If it's going to be something like a patrol rifle, buy a Colt, DD, or a LaRue (if you can swing it). If it's a personal-use or competition rifle, building or buying are both worthwhile options. Building allows you to get exactly what you want, but you probably won't save much money in doing so.
The first is my "hall clearer", with a RRA middy flat-top upper, RRA BCG, Magpul MOE forend, GG&G flip rear sight, Doublestar LPK and a VLTOR EMOD stock. Also have a Streamlight Polytack for a weapon light. This is a decent shooter, and I used it as my 3-gun rifle for a couple years before I built my second.
Second I built up from parts - including the upper. Upper is built around a BCM upper, BCM bolt, and a Nordic 18" rifle gas Barrel. Muzzle brake is a DPMS Miculek, and it has a Troy Alpha rail (I'll never buy anything else from Troy). Lower wears an A2 stock and a Doublestar LPK with a Chip McCormick 3.5lb flat trigger. Optic is a Burris MTAC 1-4 in a Burris PEPR mount. This is a fast, fast rifle for 3-gun. At 1X, the MTAC acts like a red dot, but it's got enough precision at 4X to reach out a ways. It's sub MOA with a different optic and 69 grain sierra match kings.
Building is not hard at all, and very rewarding. I've helped new AR owners put together about 8 of them now, and they all go together just fine. If it's going to be something like a patrol rifle, buy a Colt, DD, or a LaRue (if you can swing it). If it's a personal-use or competition rifle, building or buying are both worthwhile options. Building allows you to get exactly what you want, but you probably won't save much money in doing so.
LigaPrivadaFanboy
Unrepentant Hoarder
Is money an object here? If not, the LWRC M6-IC Enhanced model is the finest AR on the market today in terms of both accuracy and reliability (and under $2500). I put a premium on my free time and I think it's worth it to spend $1K over the Ruger to get a completely sorted and reliable rifle from the first round rather than f'ing around with individual parts and wasting my time. If you want to build though, more power to you. FWIW, I have a prior-gen LWRC with 7500rds though it and not one hiccup the entire way, even with shitty ammo. This rifle has been rolling around in frozen mud and it's 100% good to go!
In the pitiful 30hrs or so of carbine course I've attended, it's always the home builds that shit themselves first.
In the pitiful 30hrs or so of carbine course I've attended, it's always the home builds that shit themselves first.
My experience is the opposite... It's always the guy toting the $2500 custom 1911 and $4k custom AR with every accoutrement known to man that ends up with guns that won't run... Either they don't know how to maintain them.. Or they have some super tight tolerance "race" set up that can't hang with the high round count or getting rolled in the mud, etc...
More often than not.. It's operator error.. And not the fault of the gun...
Whether it's a shit build by someone that wouldn't take the time to do it right.. Or a "super" gun being run by someone that doesn't know how to use it..
If we're talking M4/AR built to mil spec.. It doesn't matter who is putting the pieces inside them.. As long as it's done correctly (which isn't all that difficult to do)..
If we're talking mil-spec v custom... No doubt there are some awesome options out there from guys like noveske, lwrc, wilson, etc...
But now we're talking apples to oranges comparisons...
More often than not.. It's operator error.. And not the fault of the gun...
Whether it's a shit build by someone that wouldn't take the time to do it right.. Or a "super" gun being run by someone that doesn't know how to use it..
If we're talking M4/AR built to mil spec.. It doesn't matter who is putting the pieces inside them.. As long as it's done correctly (which isn't all that difficult to do)..
If we're talking mil-spec v custom... No doubt there are some awesome options out there from guys like noveske, lwrc, wilson, etc...
But now we're talking apples to oranges comparisons...
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Last two comments are solid. A bit late to the party, but LMT deserves some consideration there as well. I've seen a couple tumble out of a heli without non-operable damage. Build it yourself... when (not if) something fails, you'll know how to address it.
Mil specs are in place to guarantee interoperability and meet certain minimums. Doesn't mean it's a superior rifle. Civilian versions can withstand heavy use but their parts will not be interchangeable with "mil spec" or mil standard rifles. Build it yourself though fun and rewarding and exactly what u want it to be.
I'd add reliability (in general) to the comment above as well. Adjustable gas blocks, low mass carriers, fancy triggers, special chambers, and all sorts of do-dads hanging off the rifle tend to just add another thing that could potentially break down. They may be improve certain functions, but those improved functions tend to come at a price somewhere. I believe that's along the lines of what folks are saying here.