What's new

Binders

Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
2,283
Location
Newark, Dull-Aware
Binders appear to be the trash men of cigar leaf. It's trash men who hold civilization together. Stats tell us the heart surgeon adds three weeks to the average life. But if we stopped collecting trash and sewage, we'd have a plague of rats & typhus in three weeks.

I thought binders deserve at least a thread to themselves. That's why I bought five samplers of LO binders, rolled five identical gars, and I offer the comparo here. These gars are simple and mild: just hond seco filler, a super thin bit of FXSS CT wrapper, and the binder in between. I wondered what each binder would add for flavor. I took all five outside and smoked them all at once.



Left to right..

  1. Honduras: This leaf is wrapper-worthy. Thin enough, wide enough, pretty enough. Certainly big enough. But it made a sour taste as a binder.
  2. Columbian: Small and coarse. This would only bind a reasonably small gar. The flavor was citrus and sweet. The burn was jagged. But here's the marvelous bit: it smoked significantly cooler than the other four.
  3. Cameroon: This stuff is not only too small, but friable as well. The flavor smooth and woody.
  4. CT1-LS: Huge, stretchy, ragged. You'd want to cut this in two & get two binder out of it; except that one of the two would be too ragged to use. Plus, you get maybe half as many leaves out of a pound. It's a nice straight burn and a warm creamy flavor.
  5. Ec Seco Shade: note: This is NOT the same as the Ec seco sh wrapper. They must sort this out before fermenting. It's very crinkly. It makes a straight burn and a neutral flavor.
My fave: the Columbian. I was pleased as well as surprised how nice and cool the smoke was, and the flavor is good. This was the gar I nubbed.

I have four or five other binders. The old reliable Dom, some aging KY sumatra from Larry Butcher, and several fillers I frequently use as binder, like the olor. Love that stuff. If I don't find my next stashworthy here soon (which I have been chasing for a month) then I might pull a repeat experiment with another five.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Messages
261
I have experience with a grans total of one binder. PA obscure binder from WLT. The leaves are very large, which means more waste but more forgiving for newbies like me. The veins are thick and prominent. I have taken to rolling them with a wallpaper seam roller to flatten a bit. The leaves are stretchy and do not rip easily. I have nothing to compare it to so I can't evaluate its taste contribution.
 
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
2,283
Location
Newark, Dull-Aware
I have experience with a grans total of one binder. PA obscure binder from WLT. The leaves are very large, which means more waste but more forgiving for newbies like me. The veins are thick and prominent. I have taken to rolling them with a wallpaper seam roller to flatten a bit. The leaves are stretchy and do not rip easily. I have nothing to compare it to so I can't evaluate its taste contribution.
Try the Dominican Seco. It's a pretty standard binder. Like this: http://wholeleaftobacco.com/Dominican-Cigar-Binder-DMNBNDR.htm I think the Dom binder from WLT is fairly aromatic like their olor. Use the LO Dom binder for a more neutral experience.
I think most of us will frequently pick a good binder leaf from a batch of filler we like. Tho that isn't what you asked. But a good answer when you want to incorporate a certain taste.
Larry Butcher (aka bigbonner at fairtradetobacco.com) can sell you good binder. Order a hand & he will ship a bale. I thought his Kentucky Sumatra was da bom for binder last year.
 

nic

Rating - 100%
41   0   0
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
1,384
Location
Seattle
I've been using Ecuadorian binder from Jorge at rollerschoice.com for the last few years. Jorge can't/won't give any additional information on what it is, so I've been left to guess. I think it's likely a broadleaf of some form, but that's as far as I got. It's of decent quality over all, neutral in flavor. It can be a bit thick, both in leaf and veins. I'm down to a lb or so, and likely won't replace it. I'm finding that so much of the wrapper I buy is half binder, so I plan to rely on that. I suppose if I find myself not "generating" enough binder, then I'll start using whatever large-ish seco I have on had.
 
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
2,955
Does anyone have any info/data/first-hand experience with current LO Nic and/or PA binder?

Thank you so much!
 

nic

Rating - 100%
41   0   0
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
1,384
Location
Seattle
Does anyone have any info/data/first-hand experience with current LO Nic and/or PA binder?

Thank you so much!
I haven't used either. I've been curious about he LO nic, but never bought. My experience with PA thus far has ruled it out as a binder, as it's always been so strongly flavored. The price is hard to resist however.
 
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
2,955
I haven't used either. I've been curious about he LO nic, but never bought. My experience with PA thus far has ruled it out as a binder, as it's always been so strongly flavored. The price is hard to resist however.
Thanks. These seem to be the under the radar binders right now...
 
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
2,283
Location
Newark, Dull-Aware
Does anyone have any info/data/first-hand experience with current LO Nic and/or PA binder?

Thank you so much!
I did have some LO PA binder; but I don't show it in my inventory right now. I dimly remember stuffing it into a package I sent someone. My inventory does show Butcher's PA wrapper, which makes excellent binder, as well as some PA broadleaf wrapper from FX Smith, leaves about three yards long, with veins as big as the veins which bulge on my biceps. I can dig around for these if you have a hankering for that wonderful robust PA flavor. I get these things, but then I rarely use them... I suppose that's because whenever I have the taste for that toasty & unique PA satisfaction I know right where to reach out & grab a machine made gar. I really like the PA flavor. Some people may claim not to; but I don't believe them. I can almost snurf those drying barns right now.

The Nic sure sounds like a binder I could get into. I have used LO Nic wrapper for binding. Smoked a Nic puro just the other afternoon while watching football in the garage. Tremendous stuff. If the binder is the same leaf as the LO wrapper, then I would recommend it. It does like to be aged after rolling. Any kind of damp, it turns studgy sour about mid-stick. I rolled one just the other day as part of a test which did that. Grand the first half, but then tarred up. I know from experience that age cures that.

If you haven't tried the Dom Olor for binder, do. The aroma of it is sheer genius.


So long as you have to flee the fiery Queen of Missions, you might as well trundle on out here, where you can more easily access my leaf stash and forest fires don't happen.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
187
Location
Sweden
I did have some LO PA binder; but I don't show it in my inventory right now. I dimly remember stuffing it into a package I sent someone. My inventory does show Butcher's PA wrapper, which makes excellent binder, as well as some PA broadleaf wrapper from FX Smith, leaves about three yards long, with veins as big as the veins which bulge on my biceps. I can dig around for these if you have a hankering for that wonderful robust PA flavor. I get these things, but then I rarely use them... I suppose that's because whenever I have the taste for that toasty & unique PA satisfaction I know right where to reach out & grab a machine made gar. I really like the PA flavor. Some people may claim not to; but I don't believe them. I can almost snurf those drying barns right now.

The Nic sure sounds like a binder I could get into. I have used LO Nic wrapper for binding. Smoked a Nic puro just the other afternoon while watching football in the garage. Tremendous stuff. If the binder is the same leaf as the LO wrapper, then I would recommend it. It does like to be aged after rolling. Any kind of damp, it turns studgy sour about mid-stick. I rolled one just the other day as part of a test which did that. Grand the first half, but then tarred up. I know from experience that age cures that.

If you haven't tried the Dom Olor for binder, do. The aroma of it is sheer genius.


So long as you have to flee the fiery Queen of Missions, you might as well trundle on out here, where you can more easily access my leaf stash and forest fires don't happen.
Just a question.. What is LO, PA and FX means?
 
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
2,955
I did have some LO PA binder; but I don't show it in my inventory right now. I dimly remember stuffing it into a package I sent someone. My inventory does show Butcher's PA wrapper, which makes excellent binder, as well as some PA broadleaf wrapper from FX Smith, leaves about three yards long, with veins as big as the veins which bulge on my biceps. I can dig around for these if you have a hankering for that wonderful robust PA flavor. I get these things, but then I rarely use them... I suppose that's because whenever I have the taste for that toasty & unique PA satisfaction I know right where to reach out & grab a machine made gar. I really like the PA flavor. Some people may claim not to; but I don't believe them. I can almost snurf those drying barns right now.

The Nic sure sounds like a binder I could get into. I have used LO Nic wrapper for binding. Smoked a Nic puro just the other afternoon while watching football in the garage. Tremendous stuff. If the binder is the same leaf as the LO wrapper, then I would recommend it. It does like to be aged after rolling. Any kind of damp, it turns studgy sour about mid-stick. I rolled one just the other day as part of a test which did that. Grand the first half, but then tarred up. I know from experience that age cures that.

If you haven't tried the Dom Olor for binder, do. The aroma of it is sheer genius.


So long as you have to flee the fiery Queen of Missions, you might as well trundle on out here, where you can more easily access my leaf stash and forest fires don't happen.
Thanks. We've been de-evac'd as of 2 days ago. I've tried most of the things you mention, including the olor. Actually all the things you mentioned. I think I even used the LO PA a couple years ago, just can't find any ref to it in my spreadsheet. Everything but that LO Nic binder. Though I often use secos for binders in this case I'm interested in other semi-shade grown binder leaves like the habanos and such, but without that habano binder fermented fruit thing going on.... Butcher's PA is pretty good, pretty neutral, for sure. Anyway, yeah, thanks.
 
Top