Cigar Legislation Efforts

[blessednxs65]

Although I have been off the board for a while, I have continued to enjoy cigars when I could and I have closely monitored the situation having to do with our rights to enjoy a puro of choice when and where we'd like.

Now the zealots have railed against almost every effort to even maintain that which we have had. In fact, in my lovely state of CA, they've gone mad with the changes they are attempting to bring about.

Then I read this morning in the Seattle Times that the State of WA is trying to capitalize on our hobby.

Amazing:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014205818_apwaxgrcigarlounges.html

 

[SailorAg]

The madness won't end until the financial house of cards falls.

 

[thegoldenmackid]

The legislation in WA is a huge step forward, given you can't smoke in just about every cigar shop in the state. I believe the shops are the one behind this legislation.

 

[tandblov]

The legislation in WA is a huge step forward, given you can't smoke in just about every cigar shop in the state. I believe the shops are the one behind this legislation.

That is correct.

This maybe the best and only shot we have to smoke indoors, something we have been denied for far too many years.

 

[BrandonP]

I can't see a lot of shops paying $15,000 to allow smoking indoors though. That is just INSANE! You can bet the lawmaker who wrote that bill saw $$$ when he wrote it, thinking "Alright, this will mean a lot of money for us because we all know this estimate will come to 100% fruition!" only to find out in 6 months that is didn't have the financial impact they had hoped for and now they have to find a way to fill the rest of the hole. Typical government. lol

 

[dpricenator]

we we do enjoy a "luxury" hobby, and you have to pay for luxuries. I'm just glad they are thinking about making a way for us to enjoy that habit socially, rather than hudled up by a heater in the garage.

And where the heck have you been Blessed? You went from being the #1 new thread starter, to a ghost, overnight.

 

[smokinpeace]

I love it when politicians take a right away and then give it back if you pay them 5k. Makes me feel like I live in the land of the free.

 

[blessednxs65]

we we do enjoy a "luxury" hobby, and you have to pay for luxuries. I'm just glad they are thinking about making a way for us to enjoy that habit socially, rather than hudled up by a heater in the garage.

And where the heck have you been Blessed? You went from being the #1 new thread starter, to a ghost, overnight.

First of all, sorry to take this post off topic, I need to respond to my friend Dave.

I was off the board for a long time after my son returned from Afghanistan. He was injured when his Humvee hit and IED and the road back was hard on him, the wife, the daughter-in-law and the grandkids.

God is faithful however, he's better now (he's currently back in Afghanistan) and we have another grandson and our family, having endured this is stronger by the grace of God and I am back in the mix.

Yes, I was an avid poster and now I am wiser and more selective. Reading some of the recent posts regarding the lack of post etiquette I am careful to try and post that which is germane and of benefit to the board, its members and the good of the order.

I missed the heck out of you guys and from the looks of things I have missed not only the great camaraderie, but some really great smokes, especially the limited releases.

Glad to be home again.

 

[sonarman]

Really? I don't see that as good news, just a slap in the face. I may just be naive but who can afford that without raising prices or making people pay an enormous amount to do something that was free a few years ago (aside from the price of a cigar)

 

[thegoldenmackid]

Really? I don't see that as good news, just a slap in the face. I may just be naive but who can afford that without raising prices or making people pay an enormous amount to do something that was free a few years ago (aside from the price of a cigar)

The fact that the shops are behind it says a lot. While I don't think it's a perfect solution, I think a few of them believe that paying the fee will be worth it. Think about it, if you charged $150 for a yearly locker rental (seems to be a base rate at quite a few shops), you have to sell 100 lockers a year, which seems doable for a lounge.

 

[Treinenwj]

Sure, it's a steep price tag, but to me it's like having a car. I hate paying the huge prices at the pump, expensive car insurance, and ridiculous registration fees every year. But damn, I sure do love having a car I can drive anytime I want. Likewise, I think they'll find it to be worth the price to have a place people can go and smoke. When people go there, they'll spend $$. This legislation can potentially increase sales enough to offset the cost and maybe even profit from allowing people to smoke at the shop.

 

[Cornrow_Wallis]

What happens if store owners let people smoke in their stores right now? Someone complains and they get fined or something?

 

[herdingcats]

What happens if store owners let people smoke in their stores right now? Someone complains and they get fined or something?

In WA, the store would be fined instantly for that kind of infraction, and possibly shut down. It's taken very seriously here.

I've talked with one of the B&M owners that are behind the proposed legislation, and here's my interpretation of his description of what's going on. As a group, the places that would like to have cigars and pipes allowed have tried and failed to get the legislature's attention on this twice. Some in Olympia have listened, but not enough. The current effort seems to be a bit more tactically and strategically put together. For one, they apparently hired a lobbyist or two. My take on that is that they know they need help to play the unfair game of politics... probably a wise decision. Second, they specifically are playing to the WA politico game of tobacco and liquor for money. What I mean is, it seems apparent in WA State that politicians will quickly bend on tobacco and liquor rules as long as it lines state coffers. So, the application and annual fees are specifically built in to help speak Olympia's language.

I seriously doubt that anyone behind this legislation likes how the bill(s) are being presented since it seems like an outright purchase of political change. The people I know are quite the "stand up" folks. So my guess is that they're viewing this as a last ditch effort.

I hope their efforts pay off. I'd be one of the first to light up in a cigar bar if the law gets changed.

 

[COYOTE JLR]

Really? I don't see that as good news, just a slap in the face. I may just be naive but who can afford that without raising prices or making people pay an enormous amount to do something that was free a few years ago (aside from the price of a cigar)

Well, considering that this is the only way I could possibly smoke inside, it's something I think people are willing to consider. We're already paying an arm and a leg in liquor, tobacco, and firearms taxes anyway.

 

[tmoney2007]

Its a bad deal. All it will do hurt small businesses. It isn't going to make them any appreciable amount of money and it will just serve as a barrier to entry for new tobacco related businesses. What happens when they make the fee $20k? Then $30k? Then $50k? Eventually they will make it so expensive that no shop will be able to afford a smoking lounge, which is exactly what they want. It won't stay at $15k. I promise you that. This isn't progress, this is the illusion of progress that will end at the same place you are now.

This is extremely short sighted, just like the deal that is being put up in Texas which the tobacco retailers association has endorsed. They shouldn't be banning smoking anywhere. It isn't about being able to smoke inside, it is about private business owner's rights.

Where does it say that they should be able to tell an owner what they can do in their own business? This is way bigger than just being able to smoke inside. Don't give up on your rights for a short term convenience.

 

[thegoldenmackid]

Its a bad deal. All it will do hurt small businesses. It isn't going to make them any appreciable amount of money and it will just serve as a barrier to entry for new tobacco related businesses. What happens when they make the fee $20k? Then $30k? Then $50k? Eventually they will make it so expensive that no shop will be able to afford a smoking lounge, which is exactly what they want. It won't stay at $15k. I promise you that. This isn't progress, this is the illusion of progress that will end at the same place you are now.

This is extremely short sighted, just like the deal that is being put up in Texas which the tobacco retailers association has endorsed. They shouldn't be banning smoking anywhere. It isn't about being able to smoke inside, it is about private business owner's rights.

Where does it say that they should be able to tell an owner what they can do in their own business? This is way bigger than just being able to smoke inside. Don't give up on your rights for a short term convenience.

Comparing apples to oranges imo.

In Washington... you can't smoke in shops.
In Texas... you can, no fees.

Washington takes a step forward. So what if it hits $100k a year, no shop can afford it, that's just like now.

Texas, it obviously is a problem. I know the people at the TXCMA, they aren't idiots, but I don't understand their deal.

I obviously disagree with the idea of banning smoking in cigar shops, but it's the unfortunate world we live in. If you can't smoke in a shop, how can you honestly expect to be able to manage to keep consumers from the online stores with their cheaper prices? There's a fear in WA that if the ban stays in affect long enough, cigar shops will become extinct. At that point, the fight is lost.

 

[tmoney2007]

Their goal is to put cigar shops out of business. They should be working to get rid of the smoking bans, not figuring out ways to make it liveable. All bans are bad, the deal in washington is not really a move in the right direction because it penalizes businesses because they are tobacco related.

The TXCMA is making a deal with the devil. They are not representing the interests of the consumers by endorsing the deal in texas. I ban that makes allowances for tobacco related businesses is a bad deal. We defeated it twice already, why make concessions when we have a winning record? It makes no sense. That's why my home shop isn't a member anymore.

 

[thegoldenmackid]

The TXCMA is making a deal with the devil. They are not representing the interests of the consumers by endorsing the deal in texas. I ban that makes allowances for tobacco related businesses is a bad deal. We defeated it twice already, why make concessions when we have a winning record? It makes no sense. That's why my home shop isn't a member anymore.

Agree with you there. I'm just lost as to how the political climate has shifted so much when there is zero evidence to suggest the ban wouldn't be easily defeated.

This article was interesting, while not a member of the Tea Party, I do pretend to keep up with politics and the fact that over half of that party supported more restrictions seemed a bit odd.

 

[tmoney2007]

The study came from a group that advocates for the smoking ban... and I can't find the actual study on their website. There are all kinds of things that they could've done to skew their results. One thing, they only asked 500 people. The chances of that small of a study actually representing such a huge population is slim to none.

Even if it does have broad support, what does it hurt to oppose it again? Are they going to take away the concessions if TXCMA doesn't give them the thumbs up? Like I said, endorsing the ban is short sighted and unprincipled.

 

[tedp]

This is just f***ing great! The B&Ms have to go against on line retailers and then have to bribe politicians to stay in business! Nice setup. :argh:okemyeye::angerFU::angerFU:
I do my fair share of buying on line but I also try to support my local shop.
How long do you think the people of this country will continue to be fed shit sandwiches and keep smiling?

Rant over