Do you have to sign a speeding ticket?

[dpricenator]

I going to ask the Brothers in Law Enforcement this question. Watch the video and you decide who was wrong. I'm sure by the time this guy got tased he should have been tased. But is not signing the speeding ticket a reason for arrest?

http://www.break.com/index/dude-tazered-for-not-signing-ticket.html

 

[jwintosh]

don't know about utah law,,, when you sign for your CA driver's license, you state that you will sign "not admitting guilt, just promising to appear in court." if you refuse to sign, you're stating that you want to be taken before the magistrate. since you don't dictate when the magistrate sees you, we take you to jail until the magistate wants to see you. only twice in my career has someone refused to sign,,, they both signed w/o incident.

as for the video, i certainly would not have let him get back into the car,,, however, i don't think i would have ever brought him out of the car. a little persuasiveness, explain the impending trip to jail, and you get a signature.

 

[no_substitute]

These questionable tasing videos are getting to be way too common. The damned things should be banned.

 

[Angry Bill]

No, Taser shouldn't be banned. They are a toold for law enforcement to safely do their job. What should happen is more training with them. Not the type of training, "Here is the taser. Her is how you turn it on. Here is how to reload it." It should be scenario training, much like the shoot no shoot we do with firearms.

We have all this equipment to safely do our job. Sometimes, people refuse to comply with our directions or plain out want to fight. In those instances, force is justified. Departments all have policies detailing when a lethal or less than lethal weapon is alowed to utilized. State law, local courts and the Supreme Court of the United States, mandate training and gives law enforcement the power (authority) to do their job.) For lack of a better term, no other job in the world gives a cop the ability to be judge, jury and executioner within in 1 second.

No i am not saying kill everyone or beat the hell out of them. What I am saying is folks like to say " the cops are too hard. Take away their tools. They get away with everything." They say this till something violent happens to them and then they understand why police do what they do.

I personally tell all my deputies that I have two rules and they are unbreakable. Rule #1. Never lie to me. If you do, you are done. Rule #2, We all go home every night. If someone dies, someone screwed up. I have already lost too many of my friends in the line of duty. I refuse to loose anymore.

Also, videos can be slanted one way to serve a purpose. There have been many examples of the media only showing a portion of the footage, but not showing what lead up to the "force used."

Ok i have been on my soapbox too long. Just giving you al food for thought. If anyone wants to come ride along during a shift in South LA and see what really goes on, send me a PM and I will arrange it. I do respect others opinions and know that some of my profession do act like asses.

Bill


RIP: Jerry Ortiz, Michael Hoenig, Stephen Blair, Nelson Yamamoto, Jake Kuergiyan, Dave March! You paid the ultimate sacrafice protecting the people of Los Angeles County. You will never be fogotten!

 

[cvm4]

I saw it yesterday and both guys seem questionable on their actions. The guy had like 8 seconds between the command and getting tazed. The cop should have explained himself better before even taking the guy out of the car.

 

[tazbigdog]

Like what was said, I do not know Utah law, but in Virginia (when I was there), if you refused to sign a summons, you are going to be arrested and taken to jail.

Signing the summons is not an admission of guilt, but a promise to appear in court to answer the charge.

Having that said, the officer could have explained it to the person he cited that it is a promise to appear.

Secondly, I would not have tased him on the highway with all that traffic.

Law Enforcement is a tough enough job out there. Being able to reflect on a situation after the incident occurs is alot different than being out there and doing the job.

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(added more after initial post)
Just saw the entire video. Shaking head. Officer did not control situation, letting guy get up, handcuffed, and walking around. When you handcuff a suspect, you need to secure them, like in the back of your patrol car. If the guy was killed sitting on highway or getting up and walking around, the officer/department could be sued civilly.

Lastly, WTF, an illegal search after gut is secured, another officer arrives on scene and initial officer talks to wife?

Arresting officer will be lucky not to get some sh*$ from his supervisor.

 

[cvm4]

I like how he was trying to be sly, asking the wife "if she wants possession of the vehicle" and after she accepts it, he goes searching to try to find something in the vehicle since she stated she'd take possession. Smooooooth...

 

[tazbigdog]

SEARCH INCIDENT TO LAWFUL ARREST - A search is reasonable, and a search warrant is not required, if a search is conducted as an incident to a lawful arrest.

Under this exception to the search warrant requirement, an arresting officer may search only the person arrested and the area within which that person might gain possession of a weapon or might destroy or hide evidence.

 

[no_substitute]

No, Taser shouldn't be banned.

Fine, then create new stricter policies to restrict their use to fewer situations. They're too easily turned into a crutch for bad/inexperienced cops.

Half of my family are LEOs, most of them in Chicago. I'm all for them having the tools and training to come home safely every night. They came home before Tasers existed just fine.

 

[tazbigdog]

create new stricter policies

They should have been already in place, in the force continuum, when, where and why the force should be applied.

I guess what irks me is how does this video, obviously from an in-dash cam, make it out to the net? It's a police record.:lookaroun

 

[Angry Bill]

Half of my family are LEOs, most of them in Chicago. I'm all for them having the tools and training to come home safely every night. They came home before Tasers existed just fine.

I come from a law enforcement family also, besides being one. When I was a rookie over 20 years ago, which is nothing compared to when my dad and brother were on the job, people had respect for law enforcement. They didn't fight with cops because they were afraid of what was goiong to happen to them. Time has changed law enforcement, as it has changed people. Thus, we have created all these tools to do our job. I agree that more training needs to occur. Every Dept in California has force policies, which state when, how, why and where less than lethal, as well as lethal force can be used.

Not sure when your family was in Chicago PD, but if they were in it a while ago, folks got their asses kicked if they took a swing at a cop. That is how they came home every night. I ahve done ride -a-longs with both the NYPD and Chicago PD since becoming a cop and have seen first hand how things are handled. Just like when my dad was on the job and someone took a swing at him. My dad retired in 1981 after doing 36 years and my brother just retired last year after doing 32 years.

No tool, should be used as a crutch. Unfortunately, with my department and all other law enforcement agencies, hiring criteria has been lowered. Gangsters are now allowed to join departments. Drug users are hired. No i am not talking about marijuana. I'm talking about hardcore drugs. Besides lower hiring standards, we add in the "me me me" generation that only cares about themselves and money. Not that money is a bad thing.

Ok, been on the soap box long enough. To answer the question about to sign or not to sign. In California, when you sign a ticket, it is not admitting guilt, only a promise to appear. If a person chooses to not sign, they get a trip to jail. Once at the jail, they are given another opportunity to sign. 99.9 % of the time, folks sign rather than go to jail.

As for the tactics used. When someone is handcuffed by one of my deputies, they are placed in a car and not allowed free access. No need for them to walk around and create more problems.

 

[williegstyles]

I personally think the cop over reacted and tazed just because he had a badge and a tazer. I honestly don't think the driver did anything that warranted being tazed. He was not screaming, yelling or resisting arrest for that matter. He asked a question and the cops stance was like "i'm an asshole cop and I don't have to answer your question!" Yes, he did tell him that he was pulled over for speeding but he never disclosed "how much over the speed limit he was driving" What happened to freedom of speech (i.e. can you NOT ask a police officer a reasonable question).

I know that there are fine upstanding law officers out there but I don't feel that this particular officer was one of them.

Here in Austin we have a huge problem with police officers abusing authority by racial profiling and unauthorized use of tazers. It was so bad that feds came in and did a full on investigation. The police chief of 20+ years resigned after 2 cases of people (unarmed) being killed for resisting arrest. Both of which were minorities. Both cases resulted in the police officer being suspended with pay and later being reinstated. One case of a man with mental disabilities being beaten to death. Another case of a woman (mentally disabled and minority) being shot to death in the middle of an apartment complex parking lot while holding a knife.

So I guess you could say with NO DISRESPECT to the HONEST law officers that I don't exactly get the warm fuzzies when I have dealings with them.

Please note: that my best friends father is a police officer here in Austin and my brother in law is a police officer in LA.

 

[no_substitute]

Not sure when your family was in Chicago PD, but if they were in it a while ago, folks got their asses kicked if they took a swing at a cop. That is how they came home every night. I ahve done ride -a-longs with both the NYPD and Chicago PD since becoming a cop and have seen first hand how things are handled. Just like when my dad was on the job and someone took a swing at him. My dad retired in 1981 after doing 36 years and my brother just retired last year after doing 32 years.

Yes, exactly. Great post. My grandfather and aunts/uncles didn't need tasers. I am all for old school beatdowns, preferably behind closed doors, for deserving individuals. Nobody is swinging at cops in the recent taser videos tho.

 

[Mtmouse]

Where I work, it is not necessary for the offender to sign the ticket, which in some cases it avoids confrontations like this. That being said, having them sign could save problems down the road. This way the defendant and the courts know the ticket was served on the defendant (stops someone from just submitting a ticket in their name). So there are pros and cons for both.

I never understood people getting in to an arguement with officers. All I know is, if you make my job more difficult then it already is, why should I consider giving you a break.

I am not one to judge my US brothers on the decisions they have to make. I don't feel I have as many risks as they do.

 

[tazbigdog]

I personally think the cop over reacted and tazed just because he had a badge and a tazer. I honestly don't think the driver did anything that warranted being tazed. He was not screaming, yelling or resisting arrest for that matter. He asked a question and the cops stance was like "i'm an asshole cop and I don't have to answer your question!" Yes, he did tell him that he was pulled over for speeding but he never disclosed "how much over the speed limit he was driving" What happened to freedom of speech (i.e. can you NOT ask a police officer a reasonable question).

Just a couple of points.

The taser was on the officer's belt because his department authorized its use. It's a tool on the Use of Force Continuum. From officer presence to deadly force, there are many steps.

The officer tased him maybe because he did not have Pepper Spray or felt that it would not work. The kid was technically under arrest once the summons/citation was written.

I am not defending officer or kid, but when the kid was outside the patrol car, saying I am not signing the citation, then the officer had to take him into custody. Maybe the officer could have just physically controlled the kid, arm bar, takedown, cuff...who knows?

The kid was definitely resisting arrest. Officer tells you to put your hands behind your back, you and everyone else in the world knows that the handcuffs are coming. Be compliant and do what the officer tells you. You'll get your say at the magistrate's office or in court.

Lastly, the cop did tell him what he was being cited for...speeding. At the roadway, it is not a time to discuss or argue the merits of the case. Accept the ticket, get a lawyer and beat the ticket in court. Instead, resist arrest, get tased, and get your mug on the net.

P.S. You are allowed to ask a police officer a reasonable question. The kid did in the safety of his vehicle, got an answer and then proceeded to argue with the officer in the roadway. Bad move.

A court of law is where you can argue.

Sorry for the rant.:wink: