djs134
BoM May '06
I'm toying with the idea of getting a wine cooler or little fridge for storage, can anyone give me an idea of the capacity I'd get out of a 50 or 80 bottle cooler in terms of approximate boxes? Thanks.
Fridge-a-dor capacity questions
- Thread starter djs134
- Start date
I have a smaller wine chiller & based on that, I'd guess 30-40 boxes for the 50ct and 40-60 on the larger - it really depends on the boxes going in as some them are a pain to fit once things get tight. (ie lusis, dc's, etc)
AZsteelman
April 2006 BoM
a shitload!
AZsteelman
April 2006 BoM
a post from another board I thought you'd find interesting from a very knowledgeble guy:
I can see the advantages both ways in the Mini vs Wine Cooler debate. If you live where temps are in the 90-100 all summer and you don't want to have to keep the house cool all day just for several hundred cigars, a cooler is the way to go. If temperature is less of a concern (or like me your Aristocrat is in a room where a window AC keeps things comfy in the summer) then go with the Aristocrat. It's nicer looking and will probably last longer.
As for the humidity questions regarding frost free....
Back in the day fridges were not frost free, a coil kept the contents cool and if there was any humidity in the air it would condense in the fridge (or form frost in the freezer.) Newer fridges avoid this by pumping out the air from the fridge/freezer when you shut the door. This removes excess humidity, keeps the fridge under a slight negative pressure and helps sublimate frost. Because it removes humidity from the air, this is the reason you cannot use a modern fridge to store cigars.
Enter wine coolers and college fridges. College fridges are like old time fridges, they use that coil (usually a panel of aluminum that serves as the freezer section) to keep things cool and they do not pump out the air and hence the humidity. This is why that freezer compartment always gets frosty. I have seen people try and use these, but they don't work well, an exterior type thermometer is needed to keep temps in the 65-70 range and because the fridge has to cycle so infrequently when it does cycle the coil gets really cold and hence frosty. When the temp is reached it shuts off and that condenstaion then drips off the coil as it thaws. Not ideal for cigar storage.
Wine coolers don't use the traditional coil/condenser set-up. Because they only need to cool the wine, not freeze it, they use a peltier system. A peltier system is solid state, meaning no movin' parts (these are the vibration-free coolers you will see advertised.) This is the type of system what Staebell uses in their THC cabs. A peltier is a heat pump. It pumps heat out of the cooler and into the environment. Because the panel of the peltier isn't colder than the surroundings, it won't cause condensation or frost on the panel. You might get some condensation elsewhere in the humi, but it will be minimum and between cedar panelling/dry beads, it will be absorbed readily.
Now the word of caution. If you plan on lining a peltier-type cooler you need to identify the peltier panel. This will usually be a smooth square or rectangular panel built into the back of the cooler. DO NOT COVER OR BLOCK THIS PANEL either with spanish cedar or putting boxes in from of it. This panel is what is keeping things cool. You want as much airflow to and from this panel as possible! The panel will most likely be at the back of the unit. When designing shelves, try not to block this panel and cut slots or gaps in the shelves where this panel is located to facilitate airflow.
I can relate to both sides of the Mini vs Cooler argument. I have an Igloodor full of sticks that I have used for years and I have an Aristocrat M on order. It should be 4-6 weeks 'til it arrives. I keep the house at no higher than 72 in the summer for both the sake of my cigars and dog. Attractive storage was more of a concern than temperature, so I went with an Aristocrat, but still relate to the DYI Wine Cooler.
I can see the advantages both ways in the Mini vs Wine Cooler debate. If you live where temps are in the 90-100 all summer and you don't want to have to keep the house cool all day just for several hundred cigars, a cooler is the way to go. If temperature is less of a concern (or like me your Aristocrat is in a room where a window AC keeps things comfy in the summer) then go with the Aristocrat. It's nicer looking and will probably last longer.
As for the humidity questions regarding frost free....
Back in the day fridges were not frost free, a coil kept the contents cool and if there was any humidity in the air it would condense in the fridge (or form frost in the freezer.) Newer fridges avoid this by pumping out the air from the fridge/freezer when you shut the door. This removes excess humidity, keeps the fridge under a slight negative pressure and helps sublimate frost. Because it removes humidity from the air, this is the reason you cannot use a modern fridge to store cigars.
Enter wine coolers and college fridges. College fridges are like old time fridges, they use that coil (usually a panel of aluminum that serves as the freezer section) to keep things cool and they do not pump out the air and hence the humidity. This is why that freezer compartment always gets frosty. I have seen people try and use these, but they don't work well, an exterior type thermometer is needed to keep temps in the 65-70 range and because the fridge has to cycle so infrequently when it does cycle the coil gets really cold and hence frosty. When the temp is reached it shuts off and that condenstaion then drips off the coil as it thaws. Not ideal for cigar storage.
Wine coolers don't use the traditional coil/condenser set-up. Because they only need to cool the wine, not freeze it, they use a peltier system. A peltier system is solid state, meaning no movin' parts (these are the vibration-free coolers you will see advertised.) This is the type of system what Staebell uses in their THC cabs. A peltier is a heat pump. It pumps heat out of the cooler and into the environment. Because the panel of the peltier isn't colder than the surroundings, it won't cause condensation or frost on the panel. You might get some condensation elsewhere in the humi, but it will be minimum and between cedar panelling/dry beads, it will be absorbed readily.
Now the word of caution. If you plan on lining a peltier-type cooler you need to identify the peltier panel. This will usually be a smooth square or rectangular panel built into the back of the cooler. DO NOT COVER OR BLOCK THIS PANEL either with spanish cedar or putting boxes in from of it. This panel is what is keeping things cool. You want as much airflow to and from this panel as possible! The panel will most likely be at the back of the unit. When designing shelves, try not to block this panel and cut slots or gaps in the shelves where this panel is located to facilitate airflow.
I can relate to both sides of the Mini vs Cooler argument. I have an Igloodor full of sticks that I have used for years and I have an Aristocrat M on order. It should be 4-6 weeks 'til it arrives. I keep the house at no higher than 72 in the summer for both the sake of my cigars and dog. Attractive storage was more of a concern than temperature, so I went with an Aristocrat, but still relate to the DYI Wine Cooler.
Haier. Also, see if you can swing a Thermo-Electric Wine cooler instead of one operating via compressor. If pricing and everything is the same, go with teh Thermo-Electric. Less to no humidity swings that way.
As to capacity? How good are you at Tetris? :rofl:
As to capacity? How good are you at Tetris? :rofl:
My Avanti thermoelectric 28 bottle can hold probably 25 boxes. I may be taking out a few shelves soon to make more air space and better rh circulation. You just have to set them up like the Tetris game to make more room as other have told me.
Biggest suggestion people gave, go larger than you think cause you will fill it. The one I bought was going to be way too big and now it is 90% full.
Try going to cigarweekly and searching in the cedar room. That is where I found invaluable information for what I did. Good luck.
Biggest suggestion people gave, go larger than you think cause you will fill it. The one I bought was going to be way too big and now it is 90% full.
Try going to cigarweekly and searching in the cedar room. That is where I found invaluable information for what I did. Good luck.
Pick up a "THERMOELECTRIC" wine chiller. The thermoelectric part is important because these are different than the "typical" wine chiller in that they utilizes thermoelectric plate (thermoelectric technology info can be found here - http://www.coolworksinc.com/about_th...technology.htm) instead of a condensor. This is important because the condensor models tend to have HUGE RH flutations when the condensor kicks on. There are modifications that can be made to remedy this but it's easier to just get the thermoelectic and be done with it - the expense and headache of trying to do the modifications is worth the little extra money.
Eh, I agree anyone thinking about this should go Thermoelectric Mark, but I don't know that the swings are HUGE. I just have a bunch of beads and three Oust Fans in mine and the swings average about 5 percent. And that's out in the open. For the remote hygro that sits on top of my singles tray, the variance is only 3 percent. And of course for the cigars in boxes there's almost no variance.
AZsteelman
April 2006 BoM
Yeah, I don't know about HUGE swings. I have 2 Oust fans, an Oasis XL, and some beads for stability purposes and it's stable as hell...still wish I'd gone with thermoelectric, but I didn't know any better back then.
Mostly I found the thermoelectric boxes are smaller in size vs traditional coil coolers. I may even need to buy another one soon. But for the lower cost, may be better anyway.
cvm4 said:
I believe these do not cool as fast as regular condenser type coolers. So when the manufacturers makes larger boxes, they have to go with the condenser type units over the thermos to keep the contents cold.
djs134
BoM May '06
Ok, I've read up on CW on wine coolerdors and now I have a couple of questions. Maybe I missed something, so correct anything that is wrong with what I've gathered:
If possible, get a TE unit to reduce condensation and larger RH swings. Units of 40 btls or higher may not come as TE units due to the cooling capacity requirements (just read that here, haven't confirmed yet. Most don't list cooling system). Now for the areas I'm not sure about. There seems to be a lot of talk about fans. I have a 150 qt cooler and don't use a fan in it. Is a fan necessary? Don't most units have fans in them already? And cedar. I plan on using boxes for convenience, sorting and protection. Do I need to put in cedar shelves or line the inside? Cedar shelves would be nice for aethetics, but wouldn't that be overkill? I plan on using beads to maintain the RH, and have no problem replacing the existing thermostat to allow for a higher temp if necessary, but my basement (that's where it will be) stays around 60 on it's own. From the info I've read, the RH swings are short lived and beads help to steady that out.
Anyone have pics of a finished wine cooler?
If possible, get a TE unit to reduce condensation and larger RH swings. Units of 40 btls or higher may not come as TE units due to the cooling capacity requirements (just read that here, haven't confirmed yet. Most don't list cooling system). Now for the areas I'm not sure about. There seems to be a lot of talk about fans. I have a 150 qt cooler and don't use a fan in it. Is a fan necessary? Don't most units have fans in them already? And cedar. I plan on using boxes for convenience, sorting and protection. Do I need to put in cedar shelves or line the inside? Cedar shelves would be nice for aethetics, but wouldn't that be overkill? I plan on using beads to maintain the RH, and have no problem replacing the existing thermostat to allow for a higher temp if necessary, but my basement (that's where it will be) stays around 60 on it's own. From the info I've read, the RH swings are short lived and beads help to steady that out.
Anyone have pics of a finished wine cooler?
djs134
BoM May '06
Just got finished running through some research info and it seems that if I want to go higher than a 28 bottle unit, I'm into the traditional compressor models. Given that, what would be wrong with using a 3.2 cubic foot mini fridge (I already have one at the ready)?