Help Me Prepare a Black Friday Order

[skillet]

I'd like to take advantage of LO's upcoming sale and grab a few lbs, but I'm still new to this, and a little overwhelmed by the selection of leaf. What are some of your favorites out of LO's stock?

I know the standard advice is that tastes are subjective and you just need to try everything, but I can't buy everything and I'd rather take suggestions than choose randomly.

Thanks BsOTL

 

[Jim D]

Can you tell the guys which kind of cigars you like so we can might possibly relate them to leaf available at LO? No guarantee but it might help...

 

[skillet]

Sure, here's what I've been enjoying recently:

Sobramesa, Mi Querida
Wise Man Maduro, Tabernacle
Tat brown, black, TAA, any tat really
MF The Judge
Any Padron

 

[blisscigarco]

I don't reckon you can come close to replicating any of those brands you like, but if you want to get "a few lbs," and you're new to rolling, I'd say 1lb each of Olor seco and Olor Ligero, and a few 1/4-lbs of wrappers that look interesting to you (preferably Caribbean/Cuban seed instead of American seed). And maybe 1/4lb of Esteli ligero to round out that 3 lbs.

 

[skillet]

Thank you @blisscigarco. Sounds like a plan.

What makes those brands hard to replicate? Lack of access to the same tobaccos I'm guessing? Not really worried about replicating them anyway, just curious.

 

[blisscigarco]

Thank you @blisscigarco. Sounds like a plan.

What makes those brands hard to replicate? Lack of access to the same tobaccos I'm guessing? Not really worried about replicating them anyway, just curious.

Basically a cigar is a presentation of the primo tobacco they have access to. That's the main thing that differentiates cigars, despite the romanticism of blends. It's a presentation of the leaf they've got. We don't get their leaf. Only they get their leaf (there are exceptions, where one house rolls a lot of different brands, e.g. El Titan de Bronze's Warped-labeled stuff). Not only that, we don't really get product of that level. Let's say there's 20 grades of commercial leaf. The best stuff we get is 10. Padron and them dudes are getting the 18-20. We ain't.

It's not a terrible situation. I still prefer to roll and smoke my own even though I can afford the primo commercial shit. And during the good years, crop-wise, I enjoy everything I roll.

 

[skillet]

Basically a cigar is a presentation of the primo tobacco they have access to. That's the main thing that differentiates cigars, despite the romanticism of blends. It's a presentation of the leaf they've got. We don't get their leaf. Only they get their leaf (there are exceptions, where one house rolls a lot of different brands, e.g. El Titan de Bronze's Warped-labeled stuff). Not only that, we don't really get product of that level, despite the hype and the occasional carnival huckster floating through these forums. Let's say there's 20 grades of commercial leaf, something which is understood in the industry and at the auctions. The best stuff we get is 10. Padron and them dudes are getting the 18-20. We ain't. That's why we're getting anything at all: someone's gotta by the 1-10 stuff.

It's not a terrible situation. I still prefer to roll and smoke my own even though I can afford the primo commercial shit. And during the good years, crop-wise, I enjoy everything I roll.

Interesting... so how is the product graded then? Do they have test smokers or can they somehow tell by lookin at em?

 

[blisscigarco]

Interesting... so how is the product graded then? Do they have test smokers or can they somehow tell by lookin at em?

Dunno. I didn't read too deeply on the grades thing. I spent a few years reading tons of stuff about tobacco and the history of cigar making and I read that info somewhere along the line.

 

[webmost]

How about advice on a how to assemble a good beginner stash of staples? Ignoring grades and what Davidoff can get that we can't and blah de blah blah... how about that which we can control?

If I had just four pounds to score to get started fooling around with blends, I'd prolly go like so:

• T-13 viso would get me two good varieties in one leaf. That's almost cheating. You got both criollo and piloto grafted together. Smallish leaves but, but your nutmeg and cinnamon and cherry flavors
• Nic seco condega filler gives me something for that earthy and chocolate Nicaraguan goodness. And it will double up as a nice binder, too. $18
• Gotta love a good Habano 2000 wrapper. Got that silky texture and toasty aroma. Only prob is, the last several batches I've gotten have not wanted to burn. The excellent reddish corojo that Marc makes look so fine is out of stock at WLT. So I would recommend some Criollo 98 wrapper. Got your sweetness on your lips. And no reason you can't use your cut off wrapper bits for filler, just to vary your blernd & experiment. $50
• So far, you are out a hundo after shipping, yet you already have the basics you can play around with. Yet if you can stretch the budget another twenty bucks, throw in some San Vicente ligero. It adds kick without masking flavors. That way you can experiment with stronger blends without destroying them.

You are in about a buck twenty/

Here's another way: Look at the cigar blend kits at wholeleaftobacco.com. You have a half dozen ways to go there. All the leaves are included. You're only talking thirty bucks a kit. The kit even comes with cigar glue. I dunno how you can go wrong. For the same buck twenty above, you can try out four different kits. Easy. You can even swap leaves out from one kit to the other.

 

[blisscigarco]

How about advice on a how to assemble a good beginner stash of staples? Ignoring grades and what Davidoff can get that we can't and blah de blah blah... how about that which we can control?

If I had just four pounds to score to get started fooling around with blends, I'd prolly go like so:

• T-13 viso would get me two good varieties in one leaf. That's almost cheating. You got both criollo and piloto grafted together. Smallish leaves but, but your nutmeg and cinnamon and cherry flavors
• Nic seco condega filler gives me something for that earthy and chocolate Nicaraguan goodness. And it will double up as a nice binder, too. $18
• Gotta love a good Habano 2000 wrapper. Got that silky texture and toasty aroma. Only prob is, the last several batches I've gotten have not wanted to burn. The excellent reddish corojo that Marc makes look so fine is out of stock at WLT. So I would recommend some Criollo 98 wrapper. Got your sweetness on your lips. And no reason you can't use your cut off wrapper bits for filler, just to vary your blernd & experiment. $50
• So far, you are out a hundo after shipping, yet you already have the basics you can play around with. Yet if you can stretch the budget another twenty bucks, throw in some San Vicente ligero. It adds kick without masking flavors. That way you can experiment with stronger blends without destroying them.

You are in about a buck twenty/

Here's another way: Look at the cigar blend kits at wholeleaftobacco.com. You have a half dozen ways to go there. All the leaves are included. You're only talking thirty bucks a kit. The kit even comes with cigar glue. I dunno how you can go wrong. For the same buck twenty above, you can try out four different kits. Easy. You can even swap leaves out from one kit to the other.

You missed a small detail: he asked about LO's Black Friday sale.

 

[webmost]

You missed a small detail: he asked about LO's Black Friday sale.

One more solid proof (as if it's needed) I'm an idjut.

OK, so how about a quarter pound sample of each of a dozen types? Even better. How can you go wrong?

all three Estelis
all three Pilotos
a CT wrap
a Corojo wrap
seco Olor
honduran viso
arapirica filler
Cubra filler

Wow! I might spring for that myself!

 

[blisscigarco]

One more solid proof (as if it's needed) I'm an idjut.

OK, so how about a quarter pound sample of each of a dozen types? Even better. How can you go wrong?

all three Estelis
all three Pilotos
a CT wrap
a Corojo wrap
seco Olor
honduran viso
arapirica filler
Cubra filler

Wow! I might spring for that myself!

Jalapa viso would do well on that list.

 

[skillet]

How about advice on a how to assemble a good beginner stash of staples? Ignoring grades and what Davidoff can get that we can't and blah de blah blah... how about that which we can control?

If I had just four pounds to score to get started fooling around with blends, I'd prolly go like so:

• T-13 viso would get me two good varieties in one leaf. That's almost cheating. You got both criollo and piloto grafted together. Smallish leaves but, but your nutmeg and cinnamon and cherry flavors
• Nic seco condega filler gives me something for that earthy and chocolate Nicaraguan goodness. And it will double up as a nice binder, too. $18
• Gotta love a good Habano 2000 wrapper. Got that silky texture and toasty aroma. Only prob is, the last several batches I've gotten have not wanted to burn. The excellent reddish corojo that Marc makes look so fine is out of stock at WLT. So I would recommend some Criollo 98 wrapper. Got your sweetness on your lips. And no reason you can't use your cut off wrapper bits for filler, just to vary your blernd & experiment. $50
• So far, you are out a hundo after shipping, yet you already have the basics you can play around with. Yet if you can stretch the budget another twenty bucks, throw in some San Vicente ligero. It adds kick without masking flavors. That way you can experiment with stronger blends without destroying them.

You are in about a buck twenty/

Here's another way: Look at the cigar blend kits at wholeleaftobacco.com. You have a half dozen ways to go there. All the leaves are included. You're only talking thirty bucks a kit. The kit even comes with cigar glue. I dunno how you can go wrong. For the same buck twenty above, you can try out four different kits. Easy. You can even swap leaves out from one kit to the other.

Yes I was asking about LO specifically, but this is still great advice which I will stash for future reference. Thanks!

 

[ras_oscar]

When I was a newbie I struggled to understand the affect of each change on the overall cigar. One I had the mechanics of creating a cigar that burns and draws well, I settled on a single blend and changed one component around that basic starting point. I would recommend you settle on a blend you like or at least can tolerate and lay in a goodly supply of that filler wrapper and binder. Then, for instance experiment with the proportions of the leafs in the filler ( more ligero, more seco, more visio, ETC) and then branch out from there.

As to the discussion of leaf availability, I agree with the above and would speculate that in addition, there are things the rolling houses do to the leaf between the time they take delivery and the time they commit a particular bale to production. Aging, petuning, etc. All are trade secrets that are closely guarded. I have never seen any roller describe the composition of their cigar other than the country of origin of the leaf.

 

[skillet]

When I was a newbie I struggled to understand the affect of each change on the overall cigar. One I had the mechanics of creating a cigar that burns and draws well, I settled on a single blend and changed one component around that basic starting point. I would recommend you settle on a blend you like or at least can tolerate and lay in a goodly supply of that filler wrapper and binder. Then, for instance experiment with the proportions of the leafs in the filler ( more ligero, more seco, more visio, ETC) and then branch out from there.

As to the discussion of leaf availability, I agree with the above and would speculate that in addition, there are things the rolling houses do to the leaf between the time they take delivery and the time they commit a particular bale to production. Aging, petuning, etc. All are trade secrets that are closely guarded. I have never seen any roller describe the composition of their cigar other than the country of origin of the leaf.

That sounds like a solid strategy. I also plan on rolling a puro or two out of each type of leaf.

 

[Jan Bynens]

Basically a cigar is a presentation of the primo tobacco they have access to. That's the main thing that differentiates cigars, despite the romanticism of blends. It's a presentation of the leaf they've got. We don't get their leaf. Only they get their leaf (there are exceptions, where one house rolls a lot of different brands, e.g. El Titan de Bronze's Warped-labeled stuff). Not only that, we don't really get product of that level, despite the hype and the occasional carnival huckster floating through these forums. Let's say there's 20 grades of commercial leaf, something which is understood in the industry and at the auctions. The best stuff we get is 10. Padron and them dudes are getting the 18-20. We ain't. That's why we're getting anything at all: someone's gotta by the 1-10 stuff.

It's not a terrible situation. I still prefer to roll and smoke my own even though I can afford the primo commercial shit. And during the good years, crop-wise, I enjoy everything I roll.

I think we focus to much on the quality of leaf.
I visited a lot of factories here in Honduras an Nicaragua to buy tobacco.
Besides size, they all have 3 qualities : A, B and C and that has more to see with the condition of the leaves (holes ... )
I always buy A-leaf. I don't buy anymore tobacco with Leaf Only or WLT, but I'm sure you can find some decent leaf.
I bought one year ago a few hundred pound of leaf and it is amazing how the smell in my bodega is changing.
In the beginning I had a sour throat after spending one hour inside. That is almost gone by now. The smell is becoming much more smooth.
The plan is to age 1.5 year more more before rolling and then aging the cigars min. 6 months.

I'm sure the difference is in aging

 

[ras_oscar]

I think we focus to much on the quality of leaf.
I visited a lot of factories here in Honduras an Nicaragua to buy tobacco.
Besides size, they all have 3 qualities : A, B and C and that has more to see with the condition of the leaves (holes ... )
I always buy A-leaf. I don't buy anymore tobacco with Leaf Only or WLT, but I'm sure you can find some decent leaf.
I bought one year ago a few hundred pound of leaf and it is amazing how the smell in my bodega is changing.
In the beginning I had a sour throat after spending one hour inside. That is almost gone by now. The smell is becoming much more smooth.
The plan is to age 1.5 year more more before rolling and then aging the cigars min. 6 months.

I'm sure the difference is in aging

Huh. That's an interesting experience. I have some leaf that is a year or more old. Not storing in an aging bodega or any particular humidity just sealed in the vender's plastic bags. Wonder if it has changed any.

 

[Jan Bynens]

It doesn't matter where but how long the leave is aged. (around 20 C and 63-65 rh)
The difference with 10+ $ cigars is the time of aging.
The filler leaves are aged between 2 and 3 years and the wrapper even more and given an extra fermentation.
Those cigars are aged more then the normal 2 months.

What I did in the beginning of rolling was once I mastered the technique of rolling I still kept buying cigars so my tobacco and cigars could age longer.

 

[webmost]

What's that LO Conerico like? Anyone tasted it?

 

[blisscigarco]

What's that LO Conerico like? Anyone tasted it?

I think I recall asking someone this about 8 months ago and they said it was very strong, which I guess put me off of trying it.