How much age is TOO much?

[Mr.OneNineDoubleDeuce]

I guess this can be answered by merely stating "it's all about trial and error". However, with the recent discussions concerning the recent production potentially not having the "ageability" of past production habanos, it's something I've been thinking about.

I've read in discussions and in reviews from some of our members that certain davidoffs that they've smoked have been past their "prime" so to speak. Granted 20 years is a looooong time to age a cigar and there are going to be changes..that's a given.

What I'm trying to ask is...how much of that "change" are you willing to give a cigar before you smoke it and find that...it's past it's prime?

I smoked an H.Upmann Conn from 98 today. Great earthy, woodsy tones and a nice medium bodied smoke. However, my rookie pallate was like "in another few years...will this cigar become a bit flat?" And I answered..more than likely..yes.

Another good example is the Choix Supreme. The 98's (sorry to harp on one particular year..but I'm speaking from experience) are smoking incredibly right now. I see this cigar with about another 3-5 year "window" because the flavors are still very pronounced, but very blended.

If I'm rambling..apologies..if not..help a brother out!..lol

 

[shatfield]

Now I'm definitely a newbie, so I'm really just guessing based on the information I've learned so far... But, I would assume once all the oils from the leaves are gone, there's not much more aging to be done. Now, how long would that be? I dunno.

 

[The Prince]

Personally, I think any age over 20 years is a little much.

 

[Christofer]

Remember, 15 gets you 20.

Oh, right, cigars...

Ummmmm....I think it really depends upon the vitola and whether one's palette is
tuned well enough to discern the subtleties that age brings to a marque.

If you look at my Humi, I smoke my sticks right off the bus and most of them are
no older than 2 years. The oldest I have are from 97 and they blow away the 04's
as nice as they are...

Chris

 

[gw-smith]

In my opinion it depends totally on the cigar you are talking about. For example - a perfectly aged Montecristo to me is about 4 to 5 years old. Much beyond that the flavors start to die. A Cohiba peaks at 5 to 7 years of aging (in my opinion) whereas other cigars (ie. Ramon Allones) may take 10 or more years to reach their peak. Some vitolas are known to age very well at 20 years and beyond (ie ERDM Tainos, RyJ Churchills, Dunhills, etc) while others would definitely have already peaked and might seem flat. I'm not an expert and haven't smoked too many 20+ year old cigars but in my opinion there is no set time that would be "too old" for aging all Cuban cigars. It would vary greatly depending on the particular stick in question and the tobacco in the box (ie. one box of RASS may not age exactly like another box).

 

[David]

I have a 1986 Monte #5 I better fire up then!

 

[Wasch_24]

I would think that storage conditions play a huge role in this discussion.

That alone is a major factor in some folks ageing sticks themselves as opposed to buying them aged.

 

[tobby4]

that is a great question i was wondering the same thing as well... I have some from 99 that are smoking great right now.... (I cant say what they are cause i bombed with a few of them unbanded right DWavs?)

 

[David]

that is a great question i was wondering the same thing as well... I have some from 99 that are smoking great right now.... (I cant say what they are cause i bombed with a few of them unbanded right DWavs?)

TELL ME NOW!!!

 

[tobby4]

nah, its more fun if you dont know... But damn they are good..... but it may be a Smokey Mountain Sweet from 99 as well......

Ha Enjoy...

 

[David]

nah, its more fun if you dont know... But damn they are good..... but it may be a Smokey Mountain Sweet from 99 as well......

Ha Enjoy...

Damn you Clay!

 

[tobby4]

yep.... i will be civil and tell you if you guess right....

 

[Bruce5]

I am no pro and this is just my understanding....
There are several factors to consider when aging:
1) Air/Oxygen - more ages faster, less ages slower.
2) Temperature - higher ages faster, lower ages slower.
3) Humidity - more ages faster, less ages slower.
3) Storage - dress boxes age faster than cabs, jars and tubos. This goes back to oxygen.
..............Slower aging preserves flavors.
.
Point being you could have two 10 year old R&J churhills...
one could be great and one could be average or less depending on how it was aged.
.
I have had many cigars from 10-20 years old that were outstanding.
Never had any between 20-45 years.
Had a few past 45 years - some good and some past their prime.

 

[hawkan2580]

It is all different depending on which marcas and what vitola we are talking about.. I've smoked almost 60 yo cigars that still had good quality life left in them.. (RA trump tubo -1947) and I have smoked cigars from 80s that had expired.

Most milder davidoffs from mid 80s have imo expired unless they were kept in prestine conditions the whole time.

Cigar do change with age, whether they change for the better in your preference is another story.. they will be different to what they originally were even as matured. But I don't think you will have anyting at all to worry about if talking sticks from 90s and onwards.. stick that have no life left in them from that period is not the sticks that have expired, they would have been kept badly and thus it wouldn't matter what stick it was, regardless it would be a bad stick due to bad keeping...

just my thought about it.. if you have a particular cigar in mind, it would be somewhat easier to answer your question more in detail.

cheers

 

[fitzonelove]

Great topic; I smoked a '98 Punch Punch the other day that was just FLAT, and was wondering the same thing. But the answers posted seem correct; put a vitola in the humi with good flavors, store it well, and you should be good to go for at least 10 years. Put a so-so cigar in, it ain't gonna get much better...this was the case with the Punch, I think.

 

[Mr.OneNineDoubleDeuce]

Storage is important. I understand the value of aging cigars under certain environments to obtain the best aging results possible.

I'm totally aware that a PSD4 has a longer "range" of aging than say a Punch Churchill. The 98 Churchill has IMHO "peaked" as I have had quite a few.

A RyJ cazadore has that long term "range" to it because it's a power house to begin with and with cigars that start with a bang as opposed to milder cigars, I understand the ranges are different.

I smoked a 96 Partagas Lonsdale that still had the Partagas profile, in a subdued manner, but again...how much longer until it loses that profile and and becomes an "overaged" lonsdale?

With all the cigars coming out recently that are smoking very well out of the box, will it become a situation where, for example, a BBF from 04 that you store for 5-10 years will be different from a 98 BBF or a 2000 BBF that has been stored for 5-10 years?

Thanks for the responses so far!

 

[Mad Dawg]

I smoked a 1980 Partagas Churchill Deluxe a few weeks ago. Although it had a certain "mustiness" to the flavors, when I slooooooooowed waaaaaaaay down and let the cigar talk to me, it was incredible. Flavors completely unlike any other cigar I've had.

Last spring, I smoked a 1980 ERdM Panatela Larga (still a widely available vitola) that blew me away - SO much life left in that little cigar!

So no, I personally don't believe "20 years is too much." I think that a cigar, when kept in optimal storage conditions, can age gracefully for decades.

 

[hawkan2580]

Sorry but I disagree.. I smoked a punch Dc -78 the other day and it had far from peaked... but if compared with a current released it tasted markedly different.. maybe you just don't like what ageing do to cigars?? Not saying that as a bad thing but you are quoteing ages that are just reaching to be regarded as mature.. not even vintage yet... so that is what leads me to ask that question.. and it is no judgment on a person if he likes vintage or not.. one of my best smoking buddies here have been smoking cubans for about 30 years and e doesn't like em much unless they are fresh....

Also remember, some cigars do go through a bit of a vacuum period where the flavours take somewhat a rest.. happens quite frequently between 10-15 years of age.. -98 sounds too young for that to have started to happen yet with the punch though.. maybe I should light one up to test... was your one stored in it's box since new or was it stitting as a single in a singles drawer?

Cheers

 

[tripp]

That Hawkan, always willing to do research for the benefit of us all.

(where is the damn "lol" smilies when you need it?)
Seriously, thanks Hawkan.




Lots of great information here guys.
Thanks!

 

[hawkan2580]

Great topic; I smoked a '98 Punch Punch the other day that was just FLAT, and was wondering the same thing. But the answers posted seem correct; put a vitola in the humi with good flavors, store it well, and you should be good to go for at least 10 years. Put a so-so cigar in, it ain't gonna get much better...this was the case with the Punch, I think.

Pm me your addy and I'll send you a -94 to contra that opinion he he... it is devine as long as you smoke it as a vintage cigar.. slowly and with the sipping technique!