Depends on the case, some manufacturers limit their minimum advertised price (MAP) for online sales to no discount, some set the MAP to 10%, some don't have MAP pricing and let retailers set their prices however they want. For example, Drew Estate has contracts with all of their Liga Privada accounts which limits the discounts to 10%, even for in-store sales. At the same time, I've seen CI selling KFC Delfinas by the stick for less than my cost directly from Drew Estate. LFD on the other hand is pretty strict on enforcing their MAP rules and leveling the playing field for online retailers regardless of size and their respective purchase power. Just depends on the specific product and what, if any, rules the manufacturer has in place for upper limits on discounts. In-store is another matter altogether, and at the shop I work at we usually do a 15% discount on purchases of 20+ cigars, whether as a box or mix-and-match, so YMMV.
I get the MAP, a lot of metal detector dealers use this as the advertised price, then state "call me for a better deal". I made the above statement based on the advertised on-line prices, but I also understand the discounts. The B&M i deal with will discount boxes 20-30% depending on brand, but will charge full price per stick if buying loose. My point was, you're paying for the box no matter how you buy your cigars, it's built into the price of the stick, whether you buy one or 20 cigars. And in this day and age, I would imagine the cost to produce most cigar boxes is minimal with modern printing and manufacturing machinery available today, not to mention the cost of producing that box is a at least a partial tax write off. I get what you're saying, but to answer the OP's question, I believe eliminating the box will shave little off the price of the cigars. It marketing, protection, and advertising for the maker. And to reinforce your point, you are going to pay less per stick by buying the box rather that a 5-pack in this type of setting, so the cost of the box itself is irrelevant.
Mombacho puts them on the back of their bands lol
Don't get me wrong, I still have a couple boxes that have sentimental value to me, like the first box of Padrons that I bought at an event and had signed by Jorge. We sell/ give away tons of boxes at work to people doing anything from just collecting them, to making jewelry boxes, to assembling groomsman gifts, to making guitars, and more. OTOH, when you're like me and have been in the industry for a few years smoking up to 8 cigars a day, most of the boxes I see don't have any great appeal for me unless it's something I can use to better organize my locker at work or one of my humidors at home. If you like collecting boxes, then by all means keep it up! The kicker on price is that there's no guarantee that a manufacturer will charge less for a bundle of cigars just because they didn't put it in a box, and if the manufacturer doesn't change their price, then the retailer won't either.
Puro already discounts his cigars, and by this logic, whether you buy by the stick, or by the box, you pay the same price, so the cost of the box isn't really a factor. A lot of the on-line retailers do the same, just don't discount for the bulk buy. I get what you're saying, but I honestly don't think eliminating the box will result in a lower price for the cigar. In the examples ralphthellama and I both gave, it's actually cheaper to buy by the box rather than by individual sticks or five packs. So the cost of the box really isn't much of a factor in the price of the cigar.
Sure, but the "full price" that your B&M will charge you when you buy loose is usually based off of the industry keystone derived from the pricing that the manufacturer sets based on their costs for making the cigars plus their desired profit margins. Just because they stop making boxes doesn't mean they are under any obligation to charge retailers less for their product. Some do, and that's great, but just switching to cellophane bundles rather than boxes doesn't guarantee that the price per stick will drop, because the price you pay per stick isn't based on what it cost the manufacturer to make that stick, it's based on what the manufacturer charged the retailer to buy that stick. The two are usually correlated, but not causally linked. So yes, you're paying for the box no matter how you buy your cigars, based not on what the box actually costs to make, but what the manufacturer decides that box is worth. The manufacturer gets their money no matter what, so any discounts that you get are coming out of the pocket of the B&M. As for what it *actually* costs to make a box, that depends on a bunch of factors. There are plenty of manufacturers who outsource to dedicated box factories. Others, like Perdomo, do everything themselves. Having been to the Perdomo factory, it's impressive to watch around a hundred people take lumber and machine it step-by-step into the boxes that we see on B&M shelves, so I don't mind paying what manufacturers charge for the boxes because I know it's keeping people employed in honest work and helping their economy. As for the tax issue, I'm not qualified to comment on the intricacies of tax law that spans several countries, so I don't know how many countries the manufacturers have to pay taxes to, nor how much, if any, of the box production cost they are allowed to write off as business expenses. Considering how the FDA feels about cigars, and that you're paying far more per stick now than you were a year ago thanks to the deeming legislation, I'm not sure that cigar manufacturers would be allowed to take any write-offs when it comes to business expenses at least as far as taxes are concerned in the US. I get what you're saying, but I know that eliminating boxes *may* temporarily reduce the individual price of cigars, but it also *may not* depending on how the manufacturer wants to handle it. Yes, it's marketing, protection, and advertising for the manufacturer. It's also jobs, housing, food, and economic stability for people who otherwise wouldn't have those things. So if the cost of the box itself is irrelevant, I'm fine with pennies on the stick, even if I don't save every box that my cigars come in.
But it does. As an example, RoMa Craft sells by the box and bundle. And they do, like all companies, charge less for the bundle. We pass that savings directly on to you. All of the RoMa Craft cigars are sold by us in bundles so we can pass the savings along by the bundle, 5-pack and single. We only buy a box to put on the shelf.
Those lines don't offer bundles. So when the retailer breaks the price down for 5-packs and singles, the price still factors in the box cost. It is only when bundles are offered in lines that the cost is less. It is up to the retailer IF they purchase the bundle and IF they pass the savings along. We do.
Right, but that depends on the customer. When we buy cigars from manufacturers who offer bundles, e.g. RoMa Craft, Leaf by Oscar, Gran Habano, etc., we price the sticks based on the bundle price, and use that bundle price to set the online box price. When a customer places an order with me for one of those cigars, I shoot them an email to see if they want their cigars to come in a box or a bundle. At least half of them still want the physical box, so even though we technically lose money on it, I still send them the box rather than the bundle. Can't do that if I only ordered bundles.
I have not had one customer request a box of RoMa Craft instead of the bundle. Not saying some don't want the box, but everyone wants to save money on their cigars and get them for the cheapest price. Bundles help to do this. If anyone wants the box, I'll order them for you. And yes, the price will be higher....we are already on very slim margins.
Yup, like I said, it depends on the customer. I have some customers who would rather pay for a box of 50 Neanderthals than 2 bundles of 25, and others who would be fine with the bundles.
Just curious, what s the ratio of manufacturers who offer both bundles and boxes, as opposed to those who offer either/or, not counting factory seconds? What's the difference in price between boxes and bundles for those brands who offer both? Just curious, most of what I buy doesn't offer the option. It's either bundles or boxes.
Holy Moley.....I just stopped the bleeding from my eyes on the earlier posts and now I'm hemorrhaging again with this SAT question....if a train pulls out of Chicago at noon and has 7 stops before it reaches New York...how many Virgins will remain so at the end of the train ride?
Not many that I have found. If a company is going to do a bundle, it is usually a little different quality or blend with different branding. RomaCraft, San Lotano, Island Jim #2, and some others offer bundles of their regular line boxed cigars at a lower price.
