Nica Notes...
- Thread starter Clint
- Start date
Anyone else hear that DE might be oiling their wrappers? Makes sense when you look at the smoldering smoke produced. Im not sure i believe it, just what ive heard. I did enjoy the rustica, very different earthy-wood campfire taste and heavy aroma
Yes. I have heard this has always been their practice. Jonathan came from infused cigar history and they have always oiled their wrappers and i have heard oiled up more (binder as well).
I am new though so not sure what to believe but when multiple B&M people are saying that its hard to ignore.
I had bought a bundle and it had been resting in my humi for 3 weeks. Cracked one open today and I really enjoyed it. I thought it was very flavorful. Maybe the people that had completely bland experiences didn't let these rest enough?
I've smoked 2 of these out of my bundle. I'm not sure what to think. Although, I can agree these things produce the most smoke of any cigar I've ever smoked. I live in NY, it's been cold here. I smoked a Nica on the way to work Friday and almost got lost. So much smoke I couldn't see where I was going. lol. All in all a good, medium strength Nicaraguan.
Q&A with the big man, C&P from a blog:::::::
Q) There have been bloggers on-line who claim, mostly based on the amount of oil stain in the boxes, that the wrappers of the entire Liga line are somehow treated artificially with oils to promote a greater smoke production. What do you say to these accusations?
permalink
[–]SSaka 17 points 9 months ago
Since I am here I might as well get started.
First off, I can't control what folks say online and I strongly suggest you take everything you read online with a grain of salt.
The staining in the box is the result of the immense amount of oils that are weeped from both our Stalk Cut T52 capa and Broadleaf No. 1 capa. Both are extremely thick oily wrappers, in fact the thickest and oiliest being use by anyone I know.
The oil content is maintained because we do NOT allow the grower or broker to do the first fermentation. In the Connecticut River Valley wrapper tobaccos are case sweated at 180 degrees for the first fermentation for about 90 days. The reason this is typically done is these tobaccos are extremely hearty and to do a traditional bulking will often require 18 or more months. IMO this process although the absolutely acceptable norm for these leaf varieties robs the tobacco of quite a bit of oils and in turn flavor, so instead we import the tobacco raw directly from the curing barn. We actually have to ship it in refrigerated containers to prevent it from starting to ferment on its own.
Secondly, we ferment both varieties at an extremely low bulking temperature. While upwards of 145 degrees is considered acceptable for broadleaf, we seldom allow our bulks to exceed 126 degrees. This makes for a very slow and labor intensive process, with our bulks often requiring upwards of 3 years to complete the fermentation process.
Third, we do not bulk for color. In other words, while we strongly desire a dark aesthetically pleasing capa with even color, we will not continue to ferment the leaf beyond where we think it is at its optimum for flavor, aroma and combustion. The result is sometimes differing shades of dark brown and even mottled at times, but again this protects the integrity of the product and its natural oils and in turn, flavor.
Fourth, we do not finish the tobacco off in a caldera. This is not to be confused with "cooking", but rather this is a very common technique employed by most factories on this type of wrapper. Basically it involves moving the ready to go tobacco into a room which is kept at an elevated temp of about 150 degrees for a period of 15 to 30 days - again this helps to improve the color, but imo robs just a little more oil from the leaf.
So the combination of each of these different approaches results in a much oilier wrapper. Oilier than any other imo. And in turn, it will result in staining on the rings, within the boxes and on cellophane much quicker than other cigars do.
Fwiw, almost all dark cigars over time will result in this staining, it just happens much quicker with Liga Privadas.
And IMO this is a good thing.
Hope this answers your question.
BR,
STS
Q) There have been bloggers on-line who claim, mostly based on the amount of oil stain in the boxes, that the wrappers of the entire Liga line are somehow treated artificially with oils to promote a greater smoke production. What do you say to these accusations?
permalink
[–]SSaka
Since I am here I might as well get started.
First off, I can't control what folks say online and I strongly suggest you take everything you read online with a grain of salt.
The staining in the box is the result of the immense amount of oils that are weeped from both our Stalk Cut T52 capa and Broadleaf No. 1 capa. Both are extremely thick oily wrappers, in fact the thickest and oiliest being use by anyone I know.
The oil content is maintained because we do NOT allow the grower or broker to do the first fermentation. In the Connecticut River Valley wrapper tobaccos are case sweated at 180 degrees for the first fermentation for about 90 days. The reason this is typically done is these tobaccos are extremely hearty and to do a traditional bulking will often require 18 or more months. IMO this process although the absolutely acceptable norm for these leaf varieties robs the tobacco of quite a bit of oils and in turn flavor, so instead we import the tobacco raw directly from the curing barn. We actually have to ship it in refrigerated containers to prevent it from starting to ferment on its own.
Secondly, we ferment both varieties at an extremely low bulking temperature. While upwards of 145 degrees is considered acceptable for broadleaf, we seldom allow our bulks to exceed 126 degrees. This makes for a very slow and labor intensive process, with our bulks often requiring upwards of 3 years to complete the fermentation process.
Third, we do not bulk for color. In other words, while we strongly desire a dark aesthetically pleasing capa with even color, we will not continue to ferment the leaf beyond where we think it is at its optimum for flavor, aroma and combustion. The result is sometimes differing shades of dark brown and even mottled at times, but again this protects the integrity of the product and its natural oils and in turn, flavor.
Fourth, we do not finish the tobacco off in a caldera. This is not to be confused with "cooking", but rather this is a very common technique employed by most factories on this type of wrapper. Basically it involves moving the ready to go tobacco into a room which is kept at an elevated temp of about 150 degrees for a period of 15 to 30 days - again this helps to improve the color, but imo robs just a little more oil from the leaf.
So the combination of each of these different approaches results in a much oilier wrapper. Oilier than any other imo. And in turn, it will result in staining on the rings, within the boxes and on cellophane much quicker than other cigars do.
Fwiw, almost all dark cigars over time will result in this staining, it just happens much quicker with Liga Privadas.
And IMO this is a good thing.
Hope this answers your question.
BR,
STS
This was actually the one I was thinking of but I ran across that.
I figured most had read this post he has cross posted various places, any who:
Q: Why do Liga Privadas and Undercrowns create so much smoke and stay burning?
There are more than a few things at play that result in why these cigars burn as they do.
1: Oil in the wrappers - in the case of all current LPs we utilize the thickest, most oily wrapper possible. We actually harvest and cure with the intent of the leaf being uber-oily which results in the tremendous production delays due to fermentation time required. Even our Otopan capa on the Undercrown is very thick when compared to other SAN leaves due to its intentional late harvest, longer cure and ferment times.
2: During fermentation in the pilon we introduce even more oils as a result of using a mojo to wet the leaves from water that has been steeped in tobacco stems. For our traditional cigars we ONLY utilize black tobacco and water.
Very well aged fillers are all we use in the LP blends.
We are very careful when blending to create not only recipes that taste good and smell delish, but to utilize materials that work well together. Combustion in our opinion is a cornerstone of achieving consistent flavor, so while wrapper x with binder y and filler z might taste great together, but if they don't burn well together there will come a time when they taste like something else. We want people to taste the blend the way we intended, therefore we must select materials that when combined create a scenario for consistent burn.
And probably the single biggest factor: How our liga pairs hand bunch our cigars.
There are 2 primary methods of hand bunching: Entubado and Estrujado
Entubado - aka Entubar, is a method where the filler tobacco is rolled into relatively tight tubes of tobacco and then laid into the bunch. This is the often called the "Cuban" method.
Estrujado - is a method where the leaves are folded over onto themselves and laid into the bunch. This method is utilized in the DR and Central America.
FYI - there are Nicaraguan factories that roll entubado and Cuban factories that roll estrujado - so you really can't generalized as a country of origin thing.
Now from here on DOWN this is ALL MY OPINION ONLY and every cigar maker will have their own opinion about the below.
There are benefits and downsides to each of the two primary methodology of hand bunching techniques.
Entubado - tubing the filler allows for great air channels and draw (when done right - regretfully many Cuban factories suck at their technique) but can result in funny burn patterns if the fillers do not burn at near identical rates... for example every see a cigar with like a nail spike of tobacco sticking out that is burning slower than the rest of the cigar? This is a perfect example of a entubado rolled cigar with slow burning ligero... And once the tobaccos are not burning together relatively evenly, the blend no longer tastes right.
Estrujado - the folding of the leaf allows typically for a better burn because unlike the entubado method, the end result is each of the filler leaves have more surface area contact with their neighboring leaves in the bunch which allows for the quicker burning ones to help along the slower burning ones which ultimately creates a better burn and a more consistent tasting blend. The downside to estrujado is it a method that can be rush through and result in a uneven burning cigars because the bunchero got too many of the folds to one side, aka booking, plus just a little bit too much leaf and the draw deteriorates quickly.
Now when both methods are implemented properly both are capable of producing an exceptional handmade cigar, but in my opinion both methods have inherent strengths and weaknesses.
So when we were developing the first Liga Privada cigars we began working on a new methodology of hand bunching cigars to take the best properties of both methods while minimizing the negatives.
Essentially it is style where we roll the fillers in entubado-style, but in very loose, wide tubes of leaf then fold those in estrujado style into the hand which contains a "base' leaf that acts almost like a second binder leaf, but is actually part of the filler blend. We then break off the tips of the long leaf bunch and backfill the body of the bunch to get even compression throughout its length.
I often refer to this as "lazy entubado", JD typically refers to it as Escuado.
This hybrid method of hand bunching cigars is extremely time consuming and requires even our very best buncheros an additional six months to learn. Plus they must have a great sense of feel because by utilizing the the backfill we are essentially giving them the ability to micro-adjust each and every bunch by touch.
The resulting cigars end up being densely packed yet exhibit an amazingly effortless draw while burning and will burn not only more evenly, but longer left resting than others.
Our unique Escudao method produces, in my opinion, the very best burning, drawing and consistent tasting cigars possible. No other factory employs our methodology, yet...
So there you have it, this is why our LPs and UCs produce that never ending cloud of sweet, sweet smoke and burn like a mofo, yet remain dense and delish.
I hope this answers everyone's question, now I gotta run and go rake leaves before it snows again!
BR,
Steve Still Prez, Drew Estate
I figured most had read this post he has cross posted various places, any who:
Q: Why do Liga Privadas and Undercrowns create so much smoke and stay burning?
There are more than a few things at play that result in why these cigars burn as they do.
1: Oil in the wrappers - in the case of all current LPs we utilize the thickest, most oily wrapper possible. We actually harvest and cure with the intent of the leaf being uber-oily which results in the tremendous production delays due to fermentation time required. Even our Otopan capa on the Undercrown is very thick when compared to other SAN leaves due to its intentional late harvest, longer cure and ferment times.
2: During fermentation in the pilon we introduce even more oils as a result of using a mojo to wet the leaves from water that has been steeped in tobacco stems. For our traditional cigars we ONLY utilize black tobacco and water.
Very well aged fillers are all we use in the LP blends.
We are very careful when blending to create not only recipes that taste good and smell delish, but to utilize materials that work well together. Combustion in our opinion is a cornerstone of achieving consistent flavor, so while wrapper x with binder y and filler z might taste great together, but if they don't burn well together there will come a time when they taste like something else. We want people to taste the blend the way we intended, therefore we must select materials that when combined create a scenario for consistent burn.
And probably the single biggest factor: How our liga pairs hand bunch our cigars.
There are 2 primary methods of hand bunching: Entubado and Estrujado
Entubado - aka Entubar, is a method where the filler tobacco is rolled into relatively tight tubes of tobacco and then laid into the bunch. This is the often called the "Cuban" method.
Estrujado - is a method where the leaves are folded over onto themselves and laid into the bunch. This method is utilized in the DR and Central America.
FYI - there are Nicaraguan factories that roll entubado and Cuban factories that roll estrujado - so you really can't generalized as a country of origin thing.
Now from here on DOWN this is ALL MY OPINION ONLY and every cigar maker will have their own opinion about the below.
There are benefits and downsides to each of the two primary methodology of hand bunching techniques.
Entubado - tubing the filler allows for great air channels and draw (when done right - regretfully many Cuban factories suck at their technique) but can result in funny burn patterns if the fillers do not burn at near identical rates... for example every see a cigar with like a nail spike of tobacco sticking out that is burning slower than the rest of the cigar? This is a perfect example of a entubado rolled cigar with slow burning ligero... And once the tobaccos are not burning together relatively evenly, the blend no longer tastes right.
Estrujado - the folding of the leaf allows typically for a better burn because unlike the entubado method, the end result is each of the filler leaves have more surface area contact with their neighboring leaves in the bunch which allows for the quicker burning ones to help along the slower burning ones which ultimately creates a better burn and a more consistent tasting blend. The downside to estrujado is it a method that can be rush through and result in a uneven burning cigars because the bunchero got too many of the folds to one side, aka booking, plus just a little bit too much leaf and the draw deteriorates quickly.
Now when both methods are implemented properly both are capable of producing an exceptional handmade cigar, but in my opinion both methods have inherent strengths and weaknesses.
So when we were developing the first Liga Privada cigars we began working on a new methodology of hand bunching cigars to take the best properties of both methods while minimizing the negatives.
Essentially it is style where we roll the fillers in entubado-style, but in very loose, wide tubes of leaf then fold those in estrujado style into the hand which contains a "base' leaf that acts almost like a second binder leaf, but is actually part of the filler blend. We then break off the tips of the long leaf bunch and backfill the body of the bunch to get even compression throughout its length.
I often refer to this as "lazy entubado", JD typically refers to it as Escuado.
This hybrid method of hand bunching cigars is extremely time consuming and requires even our very best buncheros an additional six months to learn. Plus they must have a great sense of feel because by utilizing the the backfill we are essentially giving them the ability to micro-adjust each and every bunch by touch.
The resulting cigars end up being densely packed yet exhibit an amazingly effortless draw while burning and will burn not only more evenly, but longer left resting than others.
Our unique Escudao method produces, in my opinion, the very best burning, drawing and consistent tasting cigars possible. No other factory employs our methodology, yet...
So there you have it, this is why our LPs and UCs produce that never ending cloud of sweet, sweet smoke and burn like a mofo, yet remain dense and delish.
I hope this answers everyone's question, now I gotta run and go rake leaves before it snows again!
BR,
Steve Still Prez, Drew Estate
Love the Nica. IMO for 7 bucks the quality is outstanding.
I approached these with the mindset of comparing them to MUWAT, full bodied/dark/cheap Drew Estate cigar.
I've only had 3 but so far I couldn't be happier....wait yes I could.
I would definitely prefer something closer to like a 5x52ish.
I approached these with the mindset of comparing them to MUWAT, full bodied/dark/cheap Drew Estate cigar.
I've only had 3 but so far I couldn't be happier....wait yes I could.
I would definitely prefer something closer to like a 5x52ish.
After smoking my first few, picked up two more bundles. Age will be this cigars friend. Price and flavor makes it my friend. I always love the "this is not a liga or this is not a XXX". This is a very nice cigar in its own right at a good price when cigar prices continue to climb. Rustica in itself would have led me to believe this to be a more simple cigar. But while I do not chain myself to any house, Drew Estates has always been pretty open on their cigars and the quality even on the infused sticks have been excellent. This is a very good cigar at a good price from a good house. What more could you want?
I smoked one at the show in July. Same batch as the halfwheel review stick. Very nice then and even better now.
Snagged a 25ct bundle and have been smoking them. The earlier burn issues seem to have rectified themselves. Razor sharp burn line and awesome flavors. Haven't had a bad one yet.
Snagged a 25ct bundle and have been smoking them. The earlier burn issues seem to have rectified themselves. Razor sharp burn line and awesome flavors. Haven't had a bad one yet.
StogieNinja
Derek | BoM June 2014
I'm hoping as time goes on these end up being the new $20 regular on Monster. I'm also hoping for a corona gorda. If those two things happen, I'll have a new everyday favorite.
Hoshneer
Drew Estate NotRex
Agreed... I would smoke these all day if they were on Monster special.
