so who do we believe about egypt?
- Thread starter hdroadglide
- Start date
stephen_hannibal
stephen_hannibal
HAHAHAHA... wait you're serious....
Both are correct, because everything is americas fault and Biden/politicians never lie. so they are both correct.
My uncles who live and work there were just evacuated by the Ford Foundation (where one of them works), I'm looking forward to talking to them when they get back into the states to hear a first hand account of what happened. One of them is Egyptian as well, so it will be really interesting to hear what he thinks. I'm just happy they are safe.
I bet the Israelis are nervous. Once the Muslim brotherhood finishes in Egypt and then take over Jordan Isreal will be surrounded by Muslim Extremists again. Israel kicked thier ass once and I am sure they will do it again.
The U.S. has backed Mubarak's repressive regime for around 30 years, so it wouldn't be a big surprise to see the next ruling party to be hostile towards us. It's the hypocrisy of our democracy. We really don't promote democracy very well, but implement dictatorships much much better.
Unfortunately the region has us by the nuts due to our dependence on Middle Eastern oil. Even though most of our oil comes from Canada and Mexico, it could be a devastating situation to lose supply to our allies, making economic growth come to a stand still.
Truthfully, this is the most opportune time for some Al-Qaeda idiot to pull off something successfully stupid in the Strait of Hormuz and then we would totally be f***ed. Then you would have both major oil passages blocked.
A great book for our involvement in the region is "The Fate of Africa" by Martin Meredith. You'll learn that this isn't the first repressive regime we have supported in Egypt.
Unfortunately the region has us by the nuts due to our dependence on Middle Eastern oil. Even though most of our oil comes from Canada and Mexico, it could be a devastating situation to lose supply to our allies, making economic growth come to a stand still.
Truthfully, this is the most opportune time for some Al-Qaeda idiot to pull off something successfully stupid in the Strait of Hormuz and then we would totally be f***ed. Then you would have both major oil passages blocked.
A great book for our involvement in the region is "The Fate of Africa" by Martin Meredith. You'll learn that this isn't the first repressive regime we have supported in Egypt.
Is the "regime" in Egypt really that bad? Thier human rights record is not awful but if they become a Muslim country and implement Sharia Law like Iran what do you think would happen especially to the women and non-muslims? Also when Mubarak worked with the US to form a truce with Israel it ended a huge war in that area ever since Israel had been implemented. Sure there are still a few problems but it is mush better then an all out war. We all would love to see a true democracy but don't kid yourself, Egypt would be anything but. Again look at what happened in Iran. USA needs to look at what is in the intrest of USA. What do you think would be in the intrest of Egypt and the Middle East, another 30 years of war?
We have to tread lightly with this situation. I think our involvement should be held to a minimum. Egypt was the birthplace of the new radicalism of Islam and could easily turn into a another anti-US foreign policy state. I don't think that the new heads of state would be necessarily anti-US since their is so much financial incentives involved, but if we meddle, (like we are notoriously known for in the region) this may turn on us.
Egypt basically has no way of holding a large scale war with Israel. Especially when we back Israel. They basically had no other choice. Part of the deal for a truce was so that Mubarak could gain military equipment from the U.S. to use on controlling his own country.
Egypt has always been a Muslim country. It's the regime rulers that have surpressed it over the years. Why do you think they are all so pissed off. It's another reason a lot of them think we are against Islam. If our policy is to keep supporting rulers that suppress Islamic practice, it is only logical they will turn against our policies.
Egypt basically has no way of holding a large scale war with Israel. Especially when we back Israel. They basically had no other choice. Part of the deal for a truce was so that Mubarak could gain military equipment from the U.S. to use on controlling his own country.
Egypt has always been a Muslim country. It's the regime rulers that have surpressed it over the years. Why do you think they are all so pissed off. It's another reason a lot of them think we are against Islam. If our policy is to keep supporting rulers that suppress Islamic practice, it is only logical they will turn against our policies.
That depends. Bad for who?
They're good for America (hence Biden's "I wouldn't call him a dictator" statement). Are they good for the Egyptian people? A million of 'em in the streets seem to think not.
I just hope that when the dust settles the new guys are people that we can work with. It would suck for everyone if we end up with another Iran.
-Charles
Sorry to double-tap, but I also wanted to point out that Biden's comments may have been misrepresented. The comment in question jumped out at me when I was watching the interview, so much so that I had to rewind and make sure I heard it right. Ignore the headline and take a look at the transcript: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june11/biden_01-27.html
I think at the end of the day anyone paying attention knows what we have over there. We have an unpopular dictator that America is backing up because he's good for American interests. That's all well and good, I think we're all for American interests around here, right?
The problem is that when the people do rise up and get rid of him, they're going to be upset with America. amsgpwarrior is right in post 13. As dangerous as this situation is for us, we have to be very careful about appearing to meddle. People in that entire region are understandably very hostile to that sort of thing.
-Charles
It sounds less like he's saying "Mubark is not a dictator" and more like "Because he's our ally I can not use that word to describe him" doesn't it? Pure politician BS.
I think at the end of the day anyone paying attention knows what we have over there. We have an unpopular dictator that America is backing up because he's good for American interests. That's all well and good, I think we're all for American interests around here, right?
The problem is that when the people do rise up and get rid of him, they're going to be upset with America. amsgpwarrior is right in post 13. As dangerous as this situation is for us, we have to be very careful about appearing to meddle. People in that entire region are understandably very hostile to that sort of thing.
-Charles
hdroadglide
BoM x 2, BoY 2011
so mubarak says he won't run for re election and has fired his officials. yet there is still rioting in the streets that obama seems to condone as "what the people want". yet there was not the same rhetoric coming from the white house when the iranians took to the streets.....
and it do you really believe that the muslim brotherhood is not backing this and waiting for the election to put their people in place?
and it do you really believe that the muslim brotherhood is not backing this and waiting for the election to put their people in place?
To hroadglide:
Yeah I believe the brotherhood will try to put their people in place, and I believe their are a large population of people whom will support them over there. If the new government does become radicalized like Iran, it doesn't necessarily mean it will cooperate with the wishes of other radical countries in that area. The brotherhood is not too fond of Shiites, so I assume they won't be taking their orders from the Ayatollah.
Unfortunately we aren't in a position to do anything about the outcome of the new elections or elected governing bodies. It's not like we would turn Egypt into the next Iraq and invade and then hold elections to make sure the right person got elected. We all have seen how that strategy blew up in our face with Iraq. It was in our best interest to leave Suddam alone and let him wreak havoc on his own people,....at least the area was somewhat stable with him in power. By removing Suddam, now unleashed a shiite population (Iraq is majorily shiite) that had been repressed by him and is not looking for the US for answers but now giving us the middle finger and looking to Iran for answers to it's problems.
It almost kind of seems that Mubarak is trying to slip away and step down but also still put his underlings in place so that he still has a link to power. Or it could be away for him to get away without being hung in the streets if the people got a hold of him.
Yeah I believe the brotherhood will try to put their people in place, and I believe their are a large population of people whom will support them over there. If the new government does become radicalized like Iran, it doesn't necessarily mean it will cooperate with the wishes of other radical countries in that area. The brotherhood is not too fond of Shiites, so I assume they won't be taking their orders from the Ayatollah.
Unfortunately we aren't in a position to do anything about the outcome of the new elections or elected governing bodies. It's not like we would turn Egypt into the next Iraq and invade and then hold elections to make sure the right person got elected. We all have seen how that strategy blew up in our face with Iraq. It was in our best interest to leave Suddam alone and let him wreak havoc on his own people,....at least the area was somewhat stable with him in power. By removing Suddam, now unleashed a shiite population (Iraq is majorily shiite) that had been repressed by him and is not looking for the US for answers but now giving us the middle finger and looking to Iran for answers to it's problems.
It almost kind of seems that Mubarak is trying to slip away and step down but also still put his underlings in place so that he still has a link to power. Or it could be away for him to get away without being hung in the streets if the people got a hold of him.
I am curious what kind of effect this will have on the Saudis when all is said and done. If this tide rolls over to them that can be big problems. Also if the Bortherhood take power and shut down that straight, well we will see a war whether you want to or not. Too much money goes through there.
hdroadglide
BoM x 2, BoY 2011
i am not looking for the u.s. to get involved in any more military action in the middle east. but, if egypt goes to the brotherhood, tunisia furthers their battles, and now the brotherhood is calling for overthrow in jordan, what happens to israel? do we sit back and watch if nukes finally start falling?
