US Embassy Attacks

[mdwest]

+1

Iran Contra had nothing at all to do with the Embassy hostage situation... Apples to Oreo cookies comparison (not even in the same food group)...

 

[ilikefishes]

It is actually public knowledge that Carter was negotiating the release of the hostages and Reagans team negotiated for all talks to end until after the election. Then they released the hostages under his watch and he traded a bunch of hostages for a bunch of money and weapons.

I am with the sentiment that you let the entire middle east fight it out and turn it to glass. This includes Isreal if they choose to continue their boorish behavior.

 

[NCost]

Obama will do nothing, he's more interested in how the Muslim community views him than he is of the view of the American people.

 

[weskimad]

It is actually public knowledge that Carter was negotiating the release of the hostages and Reagans team negotiated for all talks to end until after the election. Then they released the hostages under his watch and he traded a bunch of hostages for a bunch of money and weapons.

I am with the sentiment that you let the entire middle east fight it out and turn it to glass. This includes Isreal if they choose to continue their boorish behavior.

The "October Surprise" conspiracy that you mention, is just that, a conspiracy.

 

[mdwest]

Carter attempted to negotiate until he left office... but was never effective.. The Iranians hated him because of his open support for the Shah and made ridiculous demands at the bargaining table..

Reagan was very publicly aggressive towards the Iranians.. he made several comments about "barbarians", etc.. and stated he would not negotiate with the Iranians..

After the elections, but before Reagan took office, the Iranians all but quit talking to Carter... not because Reagan demanded it.. but because they didnt want to talk to Carter in the first place.. and because everyone knew he was on his way out the door..

One of the big sticking points in negotiating the release was money.. The Iranians wanted American business out of Iran.. and American businesses wanted to get out.. the issue was that the Iranians claimed that American businesses owed them as much as $60B.. while American businesses claimed what was owed was closer to $60M... The US govt, under Carter had frozen Iranian assets and bank accounts and denied them access to their money that had been in US banks..

What was negotiated was not to give the Iranians money and guns.. What he negotiated was to release about $8B in frozen funds (let them have their own money back.. not give them more money).. and agreed to give the Iranians immunity in the US courts.. This was part of the Algiers Accords.. which were passed in January, BEFORE Reagan took office (under Carters watch).. This was done by Carters Deputy Secretary of State.. NOT by Reagans team (although I am sure they had a lot of influence)... Reagan had said pretty publicly that the Iranians needed to get ready for a stomping if they did not sign the accords... He let them know several times after he became President Elect that their choice was to stop acting like clowns (demanding $60B, etc..) and get serious about releasing the hostages.. or that he would absolutely come in and take them back by force..

The day Reagan took office the hostages were released... this was an intentional slap in the face to Carter by the Iranians (who absolutely hated him and had no respect for him)..

Shortly after we transferred 50 tons of gold to Iran (they wouldnt take cash payment).. which replaced the 50 tons of gold that we continued to hold of theirs in frozen accounts at the Federal Reserve Bank (we didnt pay them.. we simply traded with them)...


Guns and money were traded for hostages in the Iran Contra affair.. but that is an entirely different incident that involved 7 hostages taken by another group at another time... and while the vast majority of people believe Reagan was at a minimum aware of it, and very possibly directly involved in it.. no hard evidence has ever been brought forward to absolutely prove this..

 

[ilikefishes]

Thank you for that explanation of the events of the early '80's.

 

[daniyal]

It would seem that the Muslim countries really don't want the U.S. around. If one obscure video clip about an anti-muslim film can incite such widespread violence against the U.S. than I'd say there is some deep seeded anger that needs to be recognized.

I for one would happily vote to withdraw all the U.S. financail aid to these countries, and many others, so as to get our own financial house more in order. IN short, quit giving money to other countries that we don't have. But I digress...

I agree, withdraw and stop giving them aid.. the only problem being that aid isn't given to the people of these nations rather to the governments to implement policies the US wants them to which in turn results in the anti-US sentiment amongst them. Egypt had a pro-US man in place, he was liberal and as non-Islamic as one could be in that region but was thrown out since he fell out of favour with the US what resulted is a government most educated Egyptians are strongly against. As far as Libya goes once again a man in absolute power, out of favour with the US, was brought down by people supported by the US. Anyway this is a completely different topic, the Arab spring resulted in events that the Western powers probably never thought they would because of one hate filled movie.

The point I'm trying to make is that these countries where attacks on US embassies are taking place have a power vaccum absolute leaders were replaced with make shift governments or one in transition which is trying to secure its footing and power and does not have the ability/willingness to stop a mob or civil uprising. I'm glad to say no such shit went down in Pakistan irrespective of the negative press we get and really, not to be insensitive because precious lives were lost, I'm very very happy that this news is not associated with Pakistan.. sure we burnt the US and Iraeli flags in protest but we haven't attacked the embassy which for me is a sign of hope for my people.

 

[njstone]

I HATE that everyone in the media keeps talking about this stupid "film." The film is completely irrelevant. Nobody here has even heard of it. The Muslim extremists were planning violent protests for 9/11, and one of them found a random movie and decided to blame it on that. Ridiculous! I can't believe the media is wasting any time at all on this stupid film.

THE FILM IS NOT NEWSWORTHY!!!! Americans targeted and murdered, THAT is newsworthy! I'm still waiting for an actual response from Washington.

 

[strife]

It would seem that the Muslim countries really don't want the U.S. around. If one obscure video clip about an anti-muslim film can incite such widespread violence against the U.S. than I'd say there is some deep seeded anger that needs to be recognized.

I for one would happily vote to withdraw all the U.S. financail aid to these countries, and many others, so as to get our own financial house more in order. IN short, quit giving money to other countries that we don't have. But I digress...

I absolutely agree 150%!!! Remove our people, close the embassy's, make it a no travel zone. Anyone visits goes at their own risk. No more money, aid or support from us. It's painfully obvious that we're not liked nor are we welcome so let them focus their anger and rage on each other.

 

[mdwest]

Thank you for that explanation of the events of the early '80's.

sucks to be so old that you actually remember the 80's... lol...

 

[strife]

Thank you for that explanation of the events of the early '80's.

sucks to be so old that you actually remember the 80's... lol...

Shit, I'm so old I can't remember yesterday.

 

[SDShark]

This aggression will not stand, man.

 

[ciggy]

It would seem that the Muslim countries really don't want the U.S. around. If one obscure video clip about an anti-muslim film can incite such widespread violence against the U.S. than I'd say there is some deep seeded anger that needs to be recognized.

I for one would happily vote to withdraw all the U.S. financail aid to these countries, and many others, so as to get our own financial house more in order. IN short, quit giving money to other countries that we don't have. But I digress...

I agree, withdraw and stop giving them aid.. the only problem being that aid isn't given to the people of these nations rather to the governments to implement policies the US wants them to which in turn results in the anti-US sentiment amongst them. Egypt had a pro-US man in place, he was liberal and as non-Islamic as one could be in that region but was thrown out since he fell out of favour with the US what resulted is a government most educated Egyptians are strongly against. As far as Libya goes once again a man in absolute power, out of favour with the US, was brought down by people supported by the US. Anyway this is a completely different topic, the Arab spring resulted in events that the Western powers probably never thought they would because of one hate filled movie.

The point I'm trying to make is that these countries where attacks on US embassies are taking place have a power vaccum absolute leaders were replaced with make shift governments or one in transition which is trying to secure its footing and power and does not have the ability/willingness to stop a mob or civil uprising. I'm glad to say no such shit went down in Pakistan irrespective of the negative press we get and really, not to be insensitive because precious lives were lost, I'm very very happy that this news is not associated with Pakistan.. sure we burnt the US and Iraeli flags in protest but we haven't attacked the embassy which for me is a sign of hope for my people.

You know I like you brother but burning our flag in protest is insulting ALL Americans and makes it worse. That would be like me burning your flag because I am against the Muslim Extremist. Burning a National flag represents the nation as a whole...not the individuals. I'm sorry but I consider burning my flag an attack regardless. We all are loving people regardless of our beliefs but to throw a whole country under a bus is insanity.

 

[jimmypa]

Still getting worse over there...a little unsettling in my stomach.

 

[D Quintero]

You know I like you brother but burning our flag in protest is insulting ALL Americans and makes it worse. That would be like me burning your flag because I am against the Muslim Extremist. Burning a National flag represents the nation as a whole...not the individuals. I'm sorry but I consider burning my flag an attack regardless. We all are loving people regardless of our beliefs but to throw a whole country under a bus is insanity.

flag burning is a protected form of political expression and covered under the first amendment. so, if US citizen on US Soil can do it in protest, i personally could care less what an individual burns in their country.. imho.

crossburning gives me the creeps though.

 

[Alwayslit]

The Project for a New American Century starting to unravel.
The response is perfect. Keep the dollar weak, the market strong, and commodities going to the moon.

 

[ciggy]

You know I like you brother but burning our flag in protest is insulting ALL Americans and makes it worse. That would be like me burning your flag because I am against the Muslim Extremist. Burning a National flag represents the nation as a whole...not the individuals. I'm sorry but I consider burning my flag an attack regardless. We all are loving people regardless of our beliefs but to throw a whole country under a bus is insanity.

flag burning is a protected form of political expression and covered under the first amendment. so, if US citizen on US Soil can do it in protest, i personally could care less what an individual burns in their country.. imho.

crossburning gives me the creeps though.

I understand this completely but my point is it creates animosity and anger which should be avoided or it just creates further hatred. I'd really just like to see this world at peace but I'm afraid it's extremely going in the wrong direction.

 

[Chrisso]

Looks like protesters are getting involved in Sydney Australia now too........

Not gonna lie, this thing has me a bit worried. More for the fact that nothing from the administration has been said officially. It seems to me that something should have been said to get some of the idiots on the street back in their homes.

Personally, I understand that the initial view is that a country itself did not storm the embassy nor pull the trigger that killed these 4 people, however I personally would like to see someone (besides the press) say something along the lines of "hey shit holes.... This is an act of war.... You guys need to keep a better grip on your crap, otherwise we will be there to fix it, and do it quickly".

I dont know.. but im uneasy about this whole damn thing.

-Chrisso

 

[heavyd]

You know I like you brother but burning our flag in protest is insulting ALL Americans and makes it worse. That would be like me burning your flag because I am against the Muslim Extremist. Burning a National flag represents the nation as a whole...not the individuals. I'm sorry but I consider burning my flag an attack regardless. We all are loving people regardless of our beliefs but to throw a whole country under a bus is insanity.

flag burning is a protected form of political expression and covered under the first amendment. so, if US citizen on US Soil can do it in protest, i personally could care less what an individual burns in their country.. imho.

crossburning gives me the creeps though.

I'd rather see a burning cross than a burning flag. If a cross is burned, at least the Right Reverend Al Sharpton will show up to defile the racists. When a flag is burned, MSNBC shows up. It doesn't bother me at all. The people who fought for the flag, and are still fighting, aren't doing it for the (American) mopes who support the act of flag burning. Those people are just along for the ride.

 

[mdwest]

The people who fought for the flag, and are still fighting, aren't doing it for the (American) mopes who support the act of flag burning. Those people are just along for the ride.

I disagree...

While I would never defile the American flag personally.. I fought for the flag and EVERYTHING it represents.. to include freedom of speech/expression...

dont get me wrong.. I think Americans that would burn the flag wear clown shoes..

I also think Americans that belong to the Westboro Baptist Church, the vast majority of "occupiers", and a host of others are clowns too...

but I would personally give my last drop of blood for them to have the ability to exercise their God given rights as American citizens however (assuming they dont go about violating the rights of others and/or comimtting crimes and try to use their "freedoms" as a cover for such activities as many of the above listed people have done.. at that point they are criminals and should be prosecuted...)...

If someone in a foreign country wants to burn my flag.. cool.. I hope they bought it from a US manufacturer and we made some money in the process.. (maybe they will need a replacement to burn tomorrow and will buy another one!).. I could care less if they are violating their countrys laws/rules.. etc.. that is for them to worry about..

When they step across the line and endanger and/or harm US diplomatic personnel.. that is a whole different story.. the host nation has a responsibility to provide security for diplomats.. when they fail to do so (especially when they fail to do so intentionally).. there needs to be a heavy price paid for that infraction..

I am not however the slightest bit insulted by some obscure dude in Jakarta, Amman, Nairobi, or Caracas that wants to burn my flag.. Ive got something he will never have... FREEDOM... If burning a piece of cloth that means something to me, but means absolutely nothing to him (if he understood it.. he would be embracing it.. not burning it).. is how he gets his rocks off.. cool.. Ill sit back, fire up another stogie, pour another glass of single malt, snuggle up to my hot wife.. and celebrate the fact that life not being a Islamist is good...