What happens to cigars stored at 75 degrees?

[pharmgator]

Everything I have read states that beetles will hatch at temps above 75. My temp normally ranges between 70-75, and I have never had problems with beetles. The cigars taste just fine. Is there some other reason the temp needs to be lower?

 

[cvm4]

IMO, beetles could breakout and you could have mold problems if the humidity spikes + high temps.

 

[CWS]

(Jaws music in the background) The little buggers lurk in the tobacco and like the warm climate. I am told the eggs are in all tobacco and may hatch when warmer. Only had it happen once and you don't want this. Imagine 300 cigars with little pin holes.

 

[Greg]

(Jaws music in the background) The little buggers lurk in the tobacco and like the warm climate. I am told the eggs are in all tobacco and may hatch when warmer. Only had it happen once and you don't want this. Imagine 300 cigars with little pin holes.

I like the Jaws reference! Now I have that damn tune in my head....du du du du...du du du du....dudududududud.....:widemouth

 

[AZsteelman]

Buddy, get yourself a cooler and be done with the worries. I didn't like that idea of worrying all the time. Now, I have nothing on my mind but smoking and drinking...oh yeah, selling some steel every now and then!

 

[MichiganM]

I like the Jaws reference! Now I have that damn tune in my head....du du du du...du du du du....dudududududud.....:widemouth

:hysterica

But seriously. The eggs can lay dormant for a long time before hatching. There are even theories out there about barometric pressure being a cause. Who knows...all I know is it's always best to be safe rather than sorry. I hope it never happens to ya man. But that's why I ordered up the Avanti.

 

[CWS]

Or move to a climate where its 72 degrees and 72% RH every day!:grinFU:

The governor wlecomes you to Kalifornia!

 

[Prometheus]

Buddy, get yourself a cooler and be done with the worries. I didn't like that idea of worrying all the time. Now, I have nothing on my mind but smoking and drinking...oh yeah, selling some steel every now and then!

Heh AZ, your boss called, and said "get back to work".:laugh:

I agree, I don't like worries. I will do what it takes to make sure I have one thing less on my mind. I am giving serious consideration to freezing my entire colection. I have a good size chest freezer and can probably do it in 2-3 batches. There was a thread on this site regarding this process. Good info.:thumbsup:

 

[pharmgator]

(Jaws music in the background) The little buggers lurk in the tobacco and like the warm climate. I am told the eggs are in all tobacco and may hatch when warmer. Only had it happen once and you don't want this. Imagine 300 cigars with little pin holes.

I have also read that freezing your sticks for 24 hours, then refrigerating them for 48 hours will solve any problems with beetle eggs. I would not want to do my cigars this way though for fear of them drying out or tasting like leftover spaghetti from 3 days ago. Does anyone have experience with this?

 

[MichiganM]

I have read on other sites from vendors that the only way this really works is if you can get the cigars cold enough...they said most commercial freezers would do it, but not home units. For the life of me, I can't find the quotes, but I distinctly remember that. You can certainly try, and most people who have froze their cigars say they taste fine after a couple months to settle back in the humi. Good luck to ya.

 

[CWS]

I have also read that freezing your sticks for 24 hours, then refrigerating them for 48 hours will solve any problems with beetle eggs. I would not want to do my cigars this way though for fear of them drying out or tasting like leftover spaghetti from 3 days ago. Does anyone have experience with this?

Yeah. See above post re: 300 cigars:crying: After much research I found the consenus was three days in the freezer, then transfer to the fridge so they don't explode. Yeah well. Some did but most survived well. The ones in boxes did best as I put the whole box in the freezer. The individual sticks did OK. Make sure you have NOTHING in the freezer but your sticks if at all possible as they will pick up the smell of anything else in there.

This was a drastic measure to save the balance of a humidor and I would not do it just in case. I was gone for a week and that all it took for them to take over. I did smoke many of the holed sticks out of spite.

 

[cvm4]

This should help :thumbsup:

As some of you know I am currently gathering scientific evidence regarding the Cigar Beetle Lasioderma serricorne

I have got another thread going, listing papers that I need help from some BOTL to locate. I will update it as papers come in and are required.
Cigar Beetle papers - need your help


Once I gather enough information it is my hope to prepare a full summary of facts about the Cigar Beetle and make it available to the public. Most importantly this will include solid facts about time and temperatures required to kill eggs in cigars. Here I am presenting some initial data that I have found.

CIGAR BEETLE DATA

Cigar Beetle eggs can be killed by exposure to temperatures easily obtainable by home refrigerators/freezers. An industrial deep freeze is not required, as rumor has indicated.

There is a direct correlation between the time it takes to kill and temperature. The colder the temp, the shorter it takes to kill eggs.

The figures below are time to kill 95% (abbreviated LT95) of eggs exposed to the environment. Keep this in mind when applying these figures to cigars because 1) we want to kill 100% of eggs and 2) any eggs inside our cigars have a thick layer of insulating tobacco that must be cooled before the eggs will reach that temperature.

5c (41f) requires ~12 days (275 hours)
0c (32f) requires ~9 days (220 hours)
-5c (23f) requires ~4 days (100 hours)
-10c (14f) requires less than 24 hours
-15c (5f) requires less than 24 hours
-20c (-4f) requires less than 24 hours


The length of time you should freeze your cigars depends on the temperature your freezer is at. I highly recommend that everyone using their freezer to treat cigars keeps a fridge/freezer thermometer in there so they know roughly what temp range their freezer runs at. These are available at most grocery stores, usually with baking supplies. From experience I have seen home freezers that run anywhere from 1 degree below freezing to as low as -25c.
Right now I am trying to get data on how long it takes a cigar to go from room temp to 5c, and from 5c to -20c. Based on data from other consumables I estimate it would take a cigar at least 24 hours to reach the same temperature as the freezer (equilibrium) when it is moved into the freezer from the refrigerator. Based on this alone one should add 24 hours to amount of time cigars are kept in the freezer.
The times given above are to kill 95% of eggs. I have not found times required to kill 99.9% of eggs but doubling the LT95 for that temperature should be more than sufficient.

IN SUMMARY

Double bag your cigars and let them spend 24 hours in the refrigerator. I think everyone agrees that this gives the cigars a safe transition from room temp to near freezing. Move the cigars into the freezer. How long they should stay there depends on your freezer temp. If it is below -10c 72 hours in the freezer should be sufficient. That's 24 hours to get the cigars to -10c, 24 hours to kill 95% of eggs, and an extra 24 hours for good measure. When coming out of the freezer it is a good idea to let the cigars spend 24 hours in the fridge, and another 24 hours at room temp STILL SEALED IN THE BAGS. This protects the cigars from rapid changes in temp/humidity.

I know there are some out there who prefer to avoid freezing because of potential damage to cigars and the rest period required afterwards. The time required will vary greatly based upon the temp of your fridge. Keep in mind the temp will also fluctuate based on door opening/closing etc. (Although this occurs in the freezer, it is less of an issue due to the comparatively short time required) With an LT95 of 12 days at 5c I would personally keep cigars in there for at least 3 weeks.

This information should be applied to uninfested cigars for prevention of a beetle outbreak. If you have cigars that are infested or you know have been exposed to beetles they should be subjected to more lengthy treatment because they will presumably have far more eggs present than any uninfested cigars that picked up some eggs during manufacture.

Data source: Mullen, M. A., and R. T.Arbogast. 1979. Time-temperature-mortality relationships for various stored-product insect eggs and chilling times for selected commodities. Journal of Economic Entomology 72:476–78.

 

[98smokes]

You can put some dry ice in the freezer to lower the temperature of your freezer to well below 0 deg F.

 

[Prometheus]

Thanks cvm4, that was exactly the thread I was thinking of.

 

[Greg]

You can put some dry ice in the freezer to lower the temperature of your freezer to well below 0 deg F.

Yep, dry ice is around -68 degrees celcius.

 

[pharmgator]

Yep, dry ice is around -68 degrees celcius.

You think your tongue would stick to it? :bigeyes:

 

[Prometheus]

You think your tongue would stick to it? :bigeyes:

Yup, right before it falls off. :hysterica

 

[indyrob]

Dry Ice inside of a different cooler should work too, I suppose. I have an apartment and no other means to freeze cigars w/o letting my ice cream melt.

The thing about beetles are that there isn't a thermometer in thier butt...it could be any temp/rH/barometric latitude that they find favorable to start hatching.

I'm setup for catostrophic meltdown if it does happen to me. I have things seperated, but not contained. I have enough S.Cedar to make it aromatic, but I don't know if the spanish cedar has the same effect on beetles that american aromatic cedar has on moths.

-Rob

 

[CWS]

Say hello to my little fren
View attachment 671

Below from Top 25 but it's pretty much what the carnage looks like. They pop cand crackle when you smoke em.

http://www.top25cigar.com/a_apps/aig/gallery.asp?action=viewimage&categoryid=9&text=&imageid=10&box=&shownew=

I also quarantine all new cigars now before adding them to my bigger humidors.

 

[Jwrussell]

Get a cooler. Keep your smokes at 65 degrees and be done with it. :thumbsup:

The freezing info from Cliff is good stuff as well, but too much hassle for me. I prefer the cooler route. Further, higher temps due tend to speed aging some as I recall.