Like sand through the hour glass, these are the days of our lives.
Stopped in a cigar lounge today and..
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ChuckMejia
The General
So you're saying you prefer kitty litter also? Or beads or bovedas?
memphsdad
But I don't live in Memphis
Where's your homie Ozark? Impatiently waiting his thoughts on this conundrum.
ChuckMejia
The General
I am not sure, he hasn't been active in a few days I think. Hope all is well for the old man. I hope he didn't have an accident with the blue pills.
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Wow, kinda harsh response. Didn't mean to offend you, but that post was directed to the OP, and the situation he posted about, not a general "lounge next door" analogy. Anyway, let's look at your post.
You can begin by taking an economics lesson and rereading the original post. The guy didn't drive around the block, or across town. He drove 30 miles to visit this shop. What are the chances he'll do this on a weekly, or even monthly basis? I'm going to out on limb and say, "probably not too often, even if if he would have got his way. Second, understand what a cigar lounge is. It's a cigar shop, with an area set aside to allow his customers to enjoy the purchases they made at his shop. The primary business of a cigar shop is to sell cigars, not maintain a flop house for smokers. If you frequent this shop on a daily, or even weekly basis, I can see the owner letting you sit and smoke. Same holds true if you're buying food and drinks. The guy is making a descent profit from you, so he let's you in on the perk. But the OP doesn't say he was going to do any of these things, he simply said he drove 30 miles to this shop he found on the internet, and when he was buying only one medium-priced stick, he wasn't entitled to the perk, because odds are he wouldn't be back on a regular basis to make it worth the business. Your comparing apples to oranges here.
That's a commendable choice, kudos. But it's a personal choice, not something you're forced to do. Just like smoking the cigar is a personal choice. The fact that you don't want your car to smell like smoke is great, but doesn't entitle you to free seats at the lounge. Your sense of entitlement is starting to show.
I can agree with this statement to a certain extend, but if you really need every little detail spelled out for you, maybe you need to grow up a bit. Again, you're comparing apples to oranges.
The OP makes no mention of food or drinks, only the purchase of one mid-priced cigar. I don't think any business would turn you away based on your example, but that's not what the OP intended, at least how I read his post. And keep in mind, for every one who comes in to buy one cigar, the shop has five or more who frequent the place on a regular basis, and buy a volume of cigars. In my world, the latter customer is who I'm going to cater to. Again, economics 101. And, I may make an exception (as the owner) to that rule if I thought you might come back. But you do realize there are a lot of big talkers who claim this, then never show up again. I'm not making any money on your boasting.
You know, I'm going to take this as a personal insult. I made that statement not to brag, but simply to demonstrate how being a good customer can get you some perks. The Lexus analogy was simply an example (I actually drive an SUV), it was not intended to "wish" I was driving a Lexus. I almost think you think I'm a shop owner, not true. I'm also not a fat cat in a three piece suit and derby, sucking down cigars and squashing the little people. Nor am I a "baller". But I have a decent job that I've been working at for 33 years, so I have the right to enjoy some of the finer things in life. If that means getting my ass kissed because I'm a decent customer, so be it. From the tone of this line, you actually sound jealous, and there's that sense of entitlement peeking through again. First off, I do order cigars on-line. I am a huge fan of JR Cigars (a site sponsor) and order from them regularly. As far as buying boxes from the "lounge I frequent", his discount at these events brings the box prices down to at or below what I can buy them for on-line. And that discount holds true for any box I may want to purchase, whether there's an event or not. His single stick prices are list price, but there is an advantage to buying in volume.
I'm more than willing to discuss the issue, but if this is the best you got, piss off. I can't argue with your logic.
ChuckMejia
The General
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Aww shucks...thanks!
Hoshneer
Blumpkin King
Beads?! You know for a second I thought I was in the wrong forum again.
ChuckMejia
The General
Shhhhhh we are waiting for @Master Shake
Bovedas in the desktop, beads and KL in the wineador. As a self taught Rocket Scientologist I find no faults other than my own.
Hey look, there's Bigfoot!
This thread has taken all sorts of twists & turns. People makin' all sorts of assumptions, excuses and justifications for the B&M's poor behavior. You can have a separate member lounge, without insulting a customer from off the street. -- As others have mentioned, some people get into a business with a hobbyist attitude. 'I like X. Why not start a business where I can be around X all day ? My buddies will come there and we can hang out." I have been in cigar shops like that. Also gunshops and flyfishing shops like that. - - Why would people come to a B&M and pay twice as much for a cigar ? Do the owners of such places even ask that question? Likely, it never even occurs to them. I've seen gunshops, flyfishing shops, and cigar shops run that way close down. Their parking spaces we're mostly empty and they complained constantly - and never looked in the mirror. Talk & typing words are wasted on them. They'll never get it, even after they close down.
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memphsdad
But I don't live in Memphis
I think gun shops are probably worse, which is hard to believe. 'You should buy this glock. Oh, you don't like glock? Well you should.'
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I agree, there are a lot of assumptions in this thread, with no real facts to back them up. We're all assuming poor behavior on the part of the business owner, simply because the OP didn't get what he wanted. The OP gave few details, including the shop name. So we can't even verify the web site he looked at. Second assumption is the shop owner is some cigar lover who decided to open a business. For all we know, he could have an MBA from Wharton with a highly profitable little enterprise going, or the shop is a tax write off for another business venture. Based on what the OP said, we simply do not know, but a lot of people here were quick to blame the shop owner for "bad business practices".
Me, I simply wanted to present the other side of the debate. It's easy to sit here and say "He should have a separate lounge for his buddies, and public one too" but until you actually research the start-up costs, put together the capital you need to build, furnish, equip, stock, and maintain this type of venue (including the cost of complying with any state and federal laws), and look at profit/loss statements associated with the business, all you're doing is speculating, making assumptions, possibly slandering an otherwise undeserving business, and not looking at the whole picture.
Each story has two sides. We were only presented with one. I think you need to see both sides of the argument before jumping to conclusions.
@omahaorange First of all, I'm not offended, it would take much more then that. However I did disagree with most of your assertions and since you are a guy that doesn't participate in the board often, (I've never seen your name before yesterday) I think you stepping in with a novel of post and attempt to drop knowledge was a dick move.
Thanks for breaking down the concept of a cigar lounge to me. Your condescending explanation was exactly what I needed. The OP said the lounge was dead, which reiterates my point of how idiotic it is to turn away any paying customer. Now I'm not an economist (I need to take that lesson you're recommending,) but last time I checked some profit is better then the 100% of jack fucking shit the shop received.
My point wasn't that I don't smoke in my car, my point was that lots of folks don't, so your original comment about smoking in your car isn't a blanket covering cure-all. And who said anything about free seats? Nice straw man argument attempt. I never said "Guess what lounge owner and/or employees? I'm gonna light up in your place with my own sticks and not pay shit cuz I'm fucking awesome." I'm spending money on cigars from a shop and yeah I expect to be able to smoke what I purchase if I feel like lighting up (assuming its not a private lounge.) IMO thats about as much entitlement as going to a restaurant, ordering a meal and having the audacity to expect to eat said meal at the restaurant.
I'm not sure where you are pulling your stats from, but if it was 1 customer buying one stick to 5 multi box buyers/steady weekly customers then no lounges would go out of business ever. The fact of the matter is that great customers are few and far between for lots of B&Ms across America. The fact that the lounge the OP visited was dead supports that assertion. This is like me saying for every 1 uggo swamp creature @memphsdad has banged, he has had 5 supermodels. This is obviously a bold faced lie pulled out of thin air that cannot be backed up. Anyone with knowledge would know that in no world could that ever fucking happen. In fact the reverse is true: for every one 6 (out of 10) or better @memphsdad has paid for sex, 10 gargantuan bedridden wildebeests were slain. I'd expect that for most B&Ms that something similar is true. And I don't need your economics lesson to understand that high end clientele should be catered to with special perks. But not giving a shit about lower end clientele (you know, the kind that should make up at least half of your business) is poor management anyway you slice it. I'm not saying the B&M owner had to jump over the counter and blow the OP while he smoked in a lounge chair but letting him use your dead lounge is about the bare minimum that you could do. The lounge is already paid for whether the customer smokes there or not and if no one else is around whats the harm exactly?
Good on you for being a great customer. If you're dropping coin then shit you deserve the perks. But what would I be jealous of exactly? Some guy I've never fucking heard of going to some local and getting great value on NC boxes? I can get deals like that right now. I've got tons of great cigars already and have made excellent relationships with folks on this very website that have generously sent fantastic packages or passed along great hookups and deals.
Thanks for breaking down the concept of a cigar lounge to me. Your condescending explanation was exactly what I needed. The OP said the lounge was dead, which reiterates my point of how idiotic it is to turn away any paying customer. Now I'm not an economist (I need to take that lesson you're recommending,) but last time I checked some profit is better then the 100% of jack fucking shit the shop received.
My point wasn't that I don't smoke in my car, my point was that lots of folks don't, so your original comment about smoking in your car isn't a blanket covering cure-all. And who said anything about free seats? Nice straw man argument attempt. I never said "Guess what lounge owner and/or employees? I'm gonna light up in your place with my own sticks and not pay shit cuz I'm fucking awesome." I'm spending money on cigars from a shop and yeah I expect to be able to smoke what I purchase if I feel like lighting up (assuming its not a private lounge.) IMO thats about as much entitlement as going to a restaurant, ordering a meal and having the audacity to expect to eat said meal at the restaurant.
I'm not sure where you are pulling your stats from, but if it was 1 customer buying one stick to 5 multi box buyers/steady weekly customers then no lounges would go out of business ever. The fact of the matter is that great customers are few and far between for lots of B&Ms across America. The fact that the lounge the OP visited was dead supports that assertion. This is like me saying for every 1 uggo swamp creature @memphsdad has banged, he has had 5 supermodels. This is obviously a bold faced lie pulled out of thin air that cannot be backed up. Anyone with knowledge would know that in no world could that ever fucking happen. In fact the reverse is true: for every one 6 (out of 10) or better @memphsdad has paid for sex, 10 gargantuan bedridden wildebeests were slain. I'd expect that for most B&Ms that something similar is true. And I don't need your economics lesson to understand that high end clientele should be catered to with special perks. But not giving a shit about lower end clientele (you know, the kind that should make up at least half of your business) is poor management anyway you slice it. I'm not saying the B&M owner had to jump over the counter and blow the OP while he smoked in a lounge chair but letting him use your dead lounge is about the bare minimum that you could do. The lounge is already paid for whether the customer smokes there or not and if no one else is around whats the harm exactly?
Good on you for being a great customer. If you're dropping coin then shit you deserve the perks. But what would I be jealous of exactly? Some guy I've never fucking heard of going to some local and getting great value on NC boxes? I can get deals like that right now. I've got tons of great cigars already and have made excellent relationships with folks on this very website that have generously sent fantastic packages or passed along great hookups and deals.
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memphsdad
But I don't live in Memphis
Why does it have to be a bald faced lie? Why can't it be a bold faced lie?
Furthermore, I'd slay 30 dragons before I paid for 1 princess.
@omahaorange - of course we don't know what Really happened. That's true of anything typed on the internet, told us in person, and even our own personal perceptions of events. If that were the test, we might as well shut down the web and most face-to-face conversations.
Discussions like this get a response, especially a strong one, because many people relate to similar situations they've experienced as related by the writer or teller.
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Discussions like this get a response, especially a strong one, because many people relate to similar situations they've experienced as related by the writer or teller.
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mjones9630
Who?
Post of the year.
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@Master Shake :
Good Job, I'm done!
Why should you have been offended, you were not the original poster? From the tone of your last post to me, you seemed awfully bent out of shape. Hence my apology. Why would the number of posts I've made on this board make any difference? So to "drop knowledge" is a dick move, simply because I don't say much? I simply entered the discussion to present another side of the argument. The OP gave very few details about his experience, yet a lot of folks were quick to condemn the shop owner. Gotta wonder who's making the dick moves here.
You're welcome, I guess. Again, just trying to present another side to the discussion. Sorry you found my post condescending, you should probably reread your last post to me, then look up the word condescending. The OP did say the place was dead, but being as how he'd never been there before, who's to say what time the regular crowd shows up? Again, you're assuming the "profit" on that one cigar is enough to cover the owner's cost, but consider that his cost not only includes his wholesale price of the cigar, but the rent, cost of equipment, cost to operate said equipment, etc. So it may have cost him $7.00 to make a $5 dollar profit on the cigar. So, he loses $2.00 on the sale. If he sells five of that stick, it takes the same amount of time, $7.00 in cost, but he makes $25 on the sell, for a net profit of $18.00. See where I'm going with this. You need to consider ALL the variables, not just one.
I'm not really sure what your point was, since the car suggestion was directed to the OP, and not to you. I could care less whether or not you smoke in your car. Nobody said anything about "free seats", my point was that it may not be profitable for the owner to allow you to purchase one stick, then take up an hour or so of lounge space while you smoke that one stick. Yeah, the OP said it was dead at this time, but reread what wrote above this. Again, the key difference between this post and the OP is the "S" at the end of the word cigar. Had the OP came to the counter with a handful, his experience may have been different. Since he didn't, and didn't ask about it, we'll never know. So speculate all you want, there is no clear cut answer to that question. Interesting that you add "assuming it's not a private lounge", as most businesses are a private, not a public enterprise. Your library is public, the cigar shop, even though he welcomes the general public to come in and buy, is not. Use the restaurant analogy all you want, but how long do you think they're going to let you sit, order a cup of coffee only, and continue to drink the refills without ordering additional food?
I wasn't quoting "stats", but again, maybe you need to check out that economics lesson. Microeconomics is what you'll be looking for, it deals with the economics of business. I think you underestimate the Great American Cigar Smoker. Those of us that post on these boards, who claim to buy from on-line shops only (because it's cheaper) and rarely go into a actual shop are but a small percentage of cigar smokers. These shops survive because of the guys who frequent them daily, buy in volume, and support the business, but don't usually get on a message board and post about it (oh yeah, it's the number of posts you make, not the content, that adds substance to what you have to say, sorry I forgot that) Low end clientele making up half your business? Where'd you get that statistic? Again, where talking about an anonymous shop somewhere in the United States. Who knows? And if you figure the owner borrowed the money to open his shop, the lounge may be far from paid for.
Again, who's the one bragging here? I made a statement to illustrate that being a good customer can you some perks. Yet you come on here thumping your chest, and the only reason I can think of is you're jealous. I could care less whether you can get great deals, or have to pay list price for Gurkhas. I'm not really sure what this statement has to do with anything related to the discussion. What I do find interesting is you managed to take a discussion that wasn't started by you, had nothing to do with you, and turn it into an "All About ME" thread.
Good Job, I'm done!
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