Arizona Shootings

[strife]

Our world is full of gun related idioms and symbolism. It's used all the time in everyday speech, commentary and advertising.

You make a great point, we talk about bombings and blowing shit up all of the time around here does that make us complicit whenever a terrorist puts on a vest?

 

[BesstR]

This was a senseless tragedy in my great state of Arizona. They should have had more security. She held one of these before and a gun developed at it. My prayers go out to the families involved. It had nothing to do with political parties just a wingnut with a gun.

 

[Black Dog]

By monitor and I do beleive we should, I mean when someone comes to purchase a gun, he is investigated.

Do you have any idea what a full scale investigation would cost for every gun purchase? There already is a NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) background check prior to a gun being sold in a gun shop. The cost of additional investigation would have to be borne by the manufacturers and sellers, if not you by your taxes. That increased cost would put firearms out of reach for the average citizen. It would also bankrupt an entire industry and put a lot of people out of work not to mention denying the average person of their Second Amendment rights.

Close the loop holes for people purchasing illegal arms.

There are no 'loopholes' for illegal firearms purchase. There are illegal sales and purchase of firearms but these are typically firearms that are stolen by a criminal and sold to a criminal. Law enforcement works hard everyday to get stolen guns off the street and out of the hands of criminals.

Stop illegal gun shops. Every gun has a #. Keep an eye on that.

The BATFE has a very strict licensing requirement and application for gun shops and monitors it very closely. I can't think of a single 'illegal' gun shop that I've seen anywhere, ever in my life. As for keeping an eye on serial numbers, that's already done. See NICS.

 

[ahbroody]

Excellent point about manchin add black dog.

 

[Burning Man]

It's obvious he's nuts by the mugshots and some of the released photos. I worked a security job once and was sent to county hospital where I got a glimpse of the psychiatric ward. I'm sooo glad I only had to work one shift there! I swear I saw the same look on a patient's face the guy has in the shot all the channels are using. Freaks me out.

 

[Jwrussell]

but to be honest in a society that's as attached to guns and the right to bear arms, I'm really surprised things like this don't happen more often.

Most like you usually are. I don't know your circumstances, but most people who think that way don't know much about guns or gun ownership. Fear of the unknown for the most part.

 

[Jwrussell]

Not all people who own guns are dangerous. Its the stupid people with guns that are dangerous, it just so happens that there are stupid people. Its also a shame that people think that violence will change the way our goverment does things. That is a sad misfortune for all involved, but has absolutely nothing to do with our society having the right to bear arms.

Don't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that this was politically/government motivated in any way shape or form, this guy is bat-shit crazy. He believed reality was false and the dreams were reality.

 

[Jwrussell]

What's with this event and sort of "cross hair" pictures on the Palin WEB site?

Totally unrelated. The whole BS about dragging that into this event is really just idiotic, as is the Congress-critter that wants to now pass laws making it a criminal offense to use any language or symbols that can be construed as a threat against a government official. Sounds like America to me, how about you? Idiots.

 

[Jwrussell]

especially with only a 9mm pistol?

He would have had to reload at least once, and that's if he hit someone with every bullet, and no one had a chance to run away.....

update with quote from msnbc, they say there was a second person involved


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40978517/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

9mm pistols can hold 15 + rounds depending on the pistol and the magazine size. I think I heard the pistol was a glock, and that's 15 rounds standard. I don't doubt the accomplice part, just saying there's plenty of firepower in a standard 9mm with a high-cap mag to cause this kind of havoc.

 

[Jwrussell]

I should have just held off posting any of the above and referred to Brian's postings. Very well put, brother.

*OT*By the way, introduced a coffee guy to your stuff today. *OT*

 

[PLUSH]

9mm pistols can hold 15 + rounds depending on the pistol and the magazine size. I think I heard the pistol was a glock, and that's 15 rounds standard. I don't doubt the accomplice part, just saying there's plenty of firepower in a standard 9mm with a high-cap mag to cause this kind of havoc.

Yep, my Baretta 92fs holds 15+1.

 

[Burning Man]

9mm pistols can hold 15 + rounds depending on the pistol and the magazine size. I think I heard the pistol was a glock, and that's 15 rounds standard. I don't doubt the accomplice part, just saying there's plenty of firepower in a standard 9mm with a high-cap mag to cause this kind of havoc.

I think CNN says he had big clips of 30. I didn't think regular people had access to clips that size but I may be mistaken. Some states like CA limit the size clip you can buy at a gun shop. Only Police carry 16 round clips.

 

[Jwrussell]

I think CNN says he had big clips of 30. I didn't think regular people had access to clips that size but I may be mistaken. Some states like CA limit the size clip you can buy at a gun shop. Only Police carry 16 round clips.

Actually they were probably the 33 round magazines as those are the standard extra-extra-high cap mags for Glocks, and yes, everyone in a non-communist state (just kidding, kinda) has access to such magazines. During the Clinton years that wasn't the case as they limited mags to 10 rounds (unless produced before the ban). For most, those ridiculously large magazines are more novelty items than anything else as they make the gun impossible to conceal in a normal manner as the magazine sticks out the bottom of the grip to about the length of the grip again. Obviously not impossible to conceal as I doubt this guy walked to this thing gun in hand, but still.

 

[Headbanger]

Dang Jason you REALLY do like to debate everything. Turn a simple thread into this. (not just you tho)

 

[bdc30]

Most like you usually are. I don't know your circumstances, but most people who think that way don't know much about guns or gun ownership. Fear of the unknown for the most part.

Not at all - quite the opposite I'd argue. I work for the police department (civilian) and I've been around guns plenty. My surprise comes from a 2-part equation I would say - first the amount of total whackjobs out there who are desperate or crazy or have little/nothing to live for and second the availablility of weapons (moreso illegally than through legal means as others have said).

Joe Random gun owner who's done everything the 'right way' to acquire a firearm doesn't scare me in the least bit.

 

[hdroadglide]

as usual, the point gets twisted by the talking heads. the crazy guy shot these people. he was known to the police who were called on him on at least five occasions for being disruptive in school. teachers feared for their lives. he had a skull shrine in his back yard. he had contacted the congresswoman before. let's put that out there that this kid had his OWN problems and did not represent any faction. what about the parents who raised this whackjob? could no one see his insanity?

 

[Jwrussell]

Not at all - quite the opposite I'd argue. I work for the police department (civilian) and I've been around guns plenty. My surprise comes from a 2-part equation I would say - first the amount of total whackjobs out there who are desperate or crazy or have little/nothing to live for and second the availablility of weapons (moreso illegally than through legal means as others have said).

Joe Random gun owner who's done everything the 'right way' to acquire a firearm doesn't scare me in the least bit.

There's always the exception to the rule. :yes:

I can see your point, but even with that slew of whackjobs, I would guess most have a line they try not to cross.

 

[Jwrussell]

as usual, the point gets twisted by the talking heads. the crazy guy shot these people. he was known to the police who were called on him on at least five occasions for being disruptive in school. teachers feared for their lives. he had a skull shrine in his back yard. he had contacted the congresswoman before. let's put that out there that this kid had his OWN problems and did not represent any faction. what about the parents who raised this whackjob? could no one see his insanity?

Excellent points and questions. That's been my thought process as well. Basically, how did this guy manage to fly under the radar when it seems he was on it so often?

 

[Jwrussell]

Dang Jason you REALLY do like to debate everything. Turn a simple thread into this. (not just you tho)

Yes I do. :innocent: And this was never going to be a simple thread, bro'.

 

[hdroadglide]

why doesn't the "media" ask the sheriff why he keeps blaming rush limbaugh when his department obviously slipped up.