Cigar purchase a luxcery item, or nessessity?

[SurfnSafari]

Was talking with a Cigar representatives who is now independent, but was with one of the big boys as their exclusive representative. subject was way B & M are failing. Why people have or are doing more online buying.

His list was long, but here are a few items he list.

B & M's are not clean.

Shop never opens on time per posted hours.

Staff is not customer service orientated. Never great customers, or says thank yous.

Shop does no creative marketing, specials events, discount for boxes, discounts or holiday promotion.

Shop doesn't use social media to promote new stuff, sales, events, or anything important like chame in hours.

This representative understand a Cigar purchase is the purchase of a luxcery item, like a high dollar car, home, good suit, or other expensive item. A Cigar could cost $20.00/ Stick or more, and is just ash after an hour of smoking.

 

[BradMc]

Mmmmmm Sounds like this guy is a lil one sided, and may have a few B&M's that are not trying........ I'd reather go to a B&M any day , than walk into a Big Box Place .....
Yes they have to fight to stay open due to prices and Online sales, But the people will support a B&M if it ran right, give a few extra's...... Running a B&M is just like any place to buy something , Customer service 1st ...... Smoking Cigars is a exspensive Hobby , The Owner of a B&M has to adjust to that ...........

 

[Nacho Daddy]

the biggie is price and convenience.
Since I will not save $$ and seldom have the selection, on line wins.

 

[bwhite220]

A well run B&M is far superior to any online/big box store. And, it's not that difficult to do either. Customer service is paramount and easier to implement at a B&M vs. online or a big box. Knowledgeable staff is key - not that they need to know more than I do but at least have a working knowledge of what's going on in their own humidor. And, keep the place clean with a welcoming atmosphere.

Price is a hot topic but sometimes I think it's an excuse. Can online or Big Box provide better pricing than a B&M? - yes. But we are talking about an item/product that is more fun to consume socially than alone for most people most of the time. There are exceptions. For example, it's much cheaper for me to buy a bottle of bourbon and go home to drink it, but I'd rather go to a bar and do it socially which costs more money. It's about the experience.

Heck, I'd much rather buy a bottle of my favorite whiskey and go to the CIGAR bar and share it with friends while smoking cigars.

the biggie is price and convenience.
Since I will not save $$ and seldom have the selection, on line wins.

I understand that. But I also think we have to take into context that we (us on cigar forums) are not the normal client for a cigar shop. We buy in bulk to age and therefore get into price ranges that are better suited online. HOWEVER, the average smoker that goes into a cigar shop just needs to pick up a few sticks or relax and they go to a cigar shop every time.

 

[Boudie]

The good B&Ms are a real treat and get my business even if I have to drive over an hour to get there. The not so good local B&Ms generally cater to a different type of crowd. Normally these customers are just looking for the ballgame on tv, a nice place to sit, something to drink and a cigar. The vast majority of cigar smokers are not as versant and curious about the hobby as the members of this forum so quality and selection may not be that important.

The owner of the shop I visit knows a lot more about cigars then I do. He knows what great customer service is and since the shop is his passion his selection and recommendations are outstanding.

 

[SurfnSafari]

Well I drive over 20 miles cross town to have my car serviced, the dealer I leased my car from is run like a bicycle shop, not a luxury car dealer. My first service at the leasing dealer was just an aweful expierence.

I would rather drive cross town to be treated like a valuable customer, then go to the leasing dealer. Soon my lease is up, and the leasing dealer is looking forward to getting my car back. It will get turned in else where.

Cigar are a luxury item, if you are not threaded good at your B & M who is not about service, being clean, having good customer service. I would look for a new place.

Honestly a lot of simple things cost nothing to do but say hello, or thank you for coming.

 

[SurfnSafari]

The good B&Ms are a real treat and get my business even if I have to drive over an hour to get there. The not so good local B&Ms generally cater to a different type of crowd. Normally these customers are just looking for the ballgame on tv, a nice place to sit, something to drink and a cigar. The vast majority of cigar smokers are not as versant and curious about the hobby as the members of this forum so quality and selection may not be that important.

The owner of the shop I visit knows a lot more about cigars then I do. He knows what great customer service is and since the shop is his passion his selection and recommendations are outstanding.

The one B & M I got to frequently has problems I kind of look past. Honestly the place should be a gold mine. But the manager is young, doesn't seem motivated.

Myself and several good customers keep say ----, you should do this, you should do that, etc. Problem is a "new" shop is relocating/moving location close to this place.

The new shops owner is very active on social media, keeps posting up dates on the build out, etc., etc. Could be the places down fall. Plus the new shop will have alcohol.

 

[Unpossible_1]

I don't ask for much from B&Ms
- Warm smile or greeting
- Decent selection
- Quality selection (read: no mold or dozens of empty boxes)
- A decent place to sit, comfy (only if lounge is advertised, not all places can afford a lounge area based on size)
- Pricing that isn't insulting; in other words, ~30% or higher markups. Trying to compete with online is one thing, trying to get to early retirement is another
- Location; nothing worse than being next to a place that hates cigar smokers. I'll do it, but I really don't want to tell some fucker off who gives me dirty looks every time I come or go

Bottom line is that I always find a way to support local B&Ms and B&Ms when I travel. They're a small business and the heartbeat of our country because of this. To neglect them is to neglect our economical ecosystem.

I do find your bicycle shop analogy pretty off course though. Every bicycle shop I've been in is a small business as well, and very friendly atmospheres. Luxury car dealerships cater to high rollers and snobs, and think their shit don't stink. They can kindly go fuck themselves.

 

[SurfnSafari]

Well I ride bicycle, at one point in my life I did a couple of double centuries, the Markleville Death Ride. So I was a serious cyclist.

We had a great Performance in Sacramento in Orangevale with a great mechanic, wheel builder. He use to to the Iornman in Hawaii every year.

Have found nothing on a par with that shop where I live now, but the problem is once you taste Kolby Beef, there is nothing like it.

I am all about great customer service because that is why I survived for 30 years in self employment. I worked hard to be better than the competition. Why because my client payed all my bills.

IMHO many B & M are run like hobby businesses, if you want to survive in 2018, you can not operate like you did before the Internet.

There is one B & M not too far from me in the Valley of the Sun, it is difficult like going to a high end auto show room. The owner is all about customer service, and experience. He does very well.

 

[Master Shake]

I haven't been to any B&Ms that I would say were run like a hobby, and I've only seen a few B&Ms in my life that I would say were crappy. I'm sure there are plenty of bad ones out there, but it seems as if @SurfnSafari is saying B&Ms go out of business because they're ran poorly. I think thats far from the truth.

Running a B&M comes with all the standard issues of running any business like needing the right location and needing to get word out about your business, but with MAJOR additional complications. Online retail is bleeding local B&Ms to death, just type in "cigar" on google and see how many shops pop up to sell you cigars at major discounts. Even if your local wants to try to be competitive, your state might not be making it easy on them. Taxes are high and I'm always seeing something about governments raising taxes, raising the tobacco age limit, or passing laws that ban smoking. That kind of stuff doesn't help get customers in the door.

In my area the only way a shop can make a real go of it is by selling other products: cigarettes, smokeless tobacco, vape and/or head shop stuff. If they are going full blown lounge, then that requires a big money investment to get a liquor license, a kitchen or both. Because selling a couple cigars to folks who stop in to smoke in the lounge isn't keeping the lights on.

 

[SurfnSafari]

I haven't been to any B&Ms that I would say were run like a hobby, and I've only seen a few B&Ms in my life that I would say were crappy. I'm sure there are plenty of bad ones out there, but it seems as if @SurfnSafari is saying B&Ms go out of business because they're ran poorly. I think thats far from the truth.

Running a B&M comes with all the standard issues of running any business like needing the right location and needing to get word out about your business, but with MAJOR additional complications. Online retail is bleeding local B&Ms to death, just type in "cigar" on google and see how many shops pop up to sell you cigars at major discounts. Even if your local wants to try to be competitive, your state might not be making it easy on them. Taxes are high and I'm always seeing something about governments raising taxes, raising the tobacco age limit, or passing laws that ban smoking. That kind of stuff doesn't help get customers in the door.

In my area the only way a shop can make a real go of it is by selling other products: cigarettes, smokeless tobacco, vape and/or head shop stuff. If they are going full blown lounge, then that requires a big money investment to get a liquor license, a kitchen or both. Because selling a couple cigars to folks who stop in to smoke in the lounge isn't keeping the lights on.

Maybe you missed my point, so let me try to explain my view from a business owner. When I ran my business, it was highly competitive, I knew the are most business were failing was maybe their product was OK, or as good as mine. So I knew customer service, good communication was what I could offer, was what I had to be best at.

Honestly the Internet is the competition that the B & M's are fighting against. I know that I personally get 4 or 5 emails a day from online retailers offering specials, discounts, free shipping, or free goodies.

I follow a could of local B & M on Twitter only one uses this FREE advertising to his advantage. This shop Vis in the process of moving, he is in building out mode. He is TWEETING every other day pictures of progress, picture of the new members area, picture of new item people want when he receives inventory.

I believe he is trying to stand up look larger than he is, plus using the same media as the big boys. His new shop will be 3x's the size of his old location, he will be in a high traffic area, he will have alcohol.

I had my little business for 30 year, until the Internet was like the Model T, to the guy making Buggy Whips. I think I cut, ran, and sold off equiptment, before it was worth nothing. Friends who were doing similar thing accross the country, tryed to hang on. Most never recovered from now the Internet.

Some cigar shop owners are like some Bar owners. They thought it would be so cool to own a Bar. But were not educated on what it take to be a successful business.

NUFF SAID.

 

[MC808]

@Master Shake nailed it.

If B&M cigar prices were the same as online shops (nearly impossible due to B&M additional expenses such as state tobacco taxes) everything mentioned above (customer service, social media advertising, etc.) would definitely work and they would be extremely competitive. That being said, with all the disadvantages B&Ms have, if they don’t have great customer service, advertising, location, etc., they don’t have much of a chance.

 

[nic]

NUFF SAID.

Living in Seattle, cigar anything is nearly extinct, save for Tribal casinos. I had a few comments about this, and how it relates to B&M; "health" laws, business practices, and political intentions to kill unattractive businesses. However, @SurfnSafari closed discussion - there's nothing left to be said on this matter. Can a mod lock this thread?

 

[SurfnSafari]

@Master Shake nailed it.

If B&M cigar prices were the same as online shops (nearly impossible due to B&M additional expenses such as state tobacco taxes) everything mentioned above (customer service, social media advertising, etc.) would definitely work and they would be extremely competitive. That being said, with all the disadvantages B&Ms have, if they don’t have great customer service, advertising, location, etc., they don’t have much of a chance.

People in general who are into service if price is close, will buy locally. My Step Son in Law has two business degrees, he is very sharp. He asked my once what the local B & M Cigar shop sold you could not purchase cross town, or on line? My reply was 95% of what they sell could be bought online, or cross town.

His replyed was customer loyalty is not like it was 5, 10, or 20 years ago. He said if you do not have a way to keep customers, and attract new ones his take is most B & M's will close or struggle to keep market share.

He said he does understand the Cigar business from owning a B & M, when online is taking over everything.

 

[dickz]

I think B&M s are like many small local businesses and must differentiate themselves on customer service as they cannot compete strictly on price with the Internet. I also think, as consumers, and if we want to have small businesses survive, we must make a serious commitment to support them. I divide my purchases between my local B&M and the Internet, with more going to the B&M if they are close enough on price. Oftentimes, my B&M will adjust their price to come closer to the Internet price and will recommend comparable sticks that are more economical. Just my thoughts/experience -YMMV.

 

[SurfnSafari]

We have mom & pop butcher shop I shop at all the time. They are open Weds - Sat 8a - 4p. They Beer Brat are to dies for, their Steaks are to die for, had Pork Chops last week that taste like Pork use too.

Prices are a buck or two higher/lb. then Kroger, quality is worth the price difference. Want some special cut of meat, they will do it. They do not do fish because all they can get is frozen.

 

[multi-useless]

there's nothing left to be said on this matter. Can a mod lock this thread?

But if they lock it now, we'll never know the answer to the question posed in the title

 

[bwhite220]

But if they lock it now, we'll never know the answer to the question posed in the title

Neither. It’s a hobby.

Luxury implies all cigars are out of budget. Not true - you can find $2.00 cigars.

Necessity implies that you are addicted and can’t live without it. This should never be the case.

Shut it down mods!

 

[Boudie]

I'll answer for you "You don't have to buy cigars, at least my friends never seem to!"

 

[Master Shake]

Shut it down mods!

You want this thread shut down? Challenge accepted.

Some cigar shop owners are like some Bar owners. They thought it would be so cool to own a Bar. But were not educated on what it take to be a successful business.

This happens in every business, its not just cigars. There are plenty of chefs who can cook their ass off, but can't pick a location, don't know how to advertise, can't run the front of the house or keep the books well and then they flounder and go under. That concept isn't exclusive to B&M or bar owners.

As far as missing your point goes, I certainly did. There are several reasons for that. For starters, your original post had almost nothing to do with the thread title. This was slightly confusing, as a thread title generally is a tease of what would amount to the "thesis" of a posting. You missed the mark there. Secondly, the many typos, misspellings, and the occasional incorrect usage of a word makes following along difficult. Finally, your post reads like a third graders first ever short story outline in that the thoughts are disjointed and occasionally trail off point. It makes for a confusing and headache inducing read. From this I can only assume that English is not your first language, you suffered a stroke recently or you never passed the third grade.

NUFF SAID