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creating a smooth blend

Dominican56

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It wasn't complicated. I used some chardonnay to spray on the some Honduran Viso. Soaked it pretty well, too.
I made and smoked a cigar using the treated Honduran viso (the leaf dried sufficiently to roll) and it seemed to be better. However, when I tried one of the cigars with treated that Honduran viso 3 months later, it simply wasn't good. The strong flavor was of that viso had returned. So, my conclusion, chardonnay isn't a good mojo. But it made the cigar cooler smell pretty good.

I will, however, try your vodka vanilla mojo when I get a chance. It's simple and the vodka should soak into the leaf pretty fast. Also vanilla extract is made by soaking vanilla beans in either rum or vodka. (Incidentally, I've made a bunch of vanilla extract and am due to make more)

Just curious, what was the recipe of 'mojo' you're using?
 
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It's most likely my individual taster-buds, but here is a list of leaf I just can't do because I find it harsh, bad aftertaste or hits the back of my throat.
Olor (all of it)
Honduran viso
Nicuraguran viso
Some Nicurgan seco
Honduran seco
LO PA wrapper, binder
I can't recall the other leafs, but there is more.

Smooth for me:
Honduran ligero (I was surprised)
Nicaraguan ligero Jalapa
Funny. I own every single one of those leaves :(
 

Dominican56

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Taste is very subjective. You might love what he hates. That's what makes this stuff fun and each one of us winds up with a unique "signature" blending profile. You may dislike what I'm rolling. Doesn't mean what I'm rolling is bad if I'm loving it.
Exactly. Most folks may think the cigars I like suck.
However, they would be stupid and lacking good judgement if they did! (laughing) :D
 
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If it's Cuban you're talking about, the FDA doesn't apply.
If tobacco is being treated post fermentation it would have to be quite specific and the recipe would have to be extremely consistent.
I can't imagine they are hacking together some magic mojo like a few home rollers do. Not that it's a bad thing for home-rollers mind you.
what the .. I hear you but, what the hell.
 

Dominican56

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what the .. I hear you but, what the hell.
Yep, Cubans don’t market in the US and can’t sell here so the FDA isn’t something they need worry about.

The evidence says to me that unique Cuban tobacco flavor isn’t coming from some mysterious mojo process.

The evidence suggests so

I’ll keep it short. We all know tobacco has unique flavor imparted brim the country and region it’s grown in. How can we assume Cuba is different?

Each country and tobacco growing region has its own unique flavor, including Cuba


When the cigar families left Cuba with their tobacco seed and planted it in other areas of the world, why didn’t that subtle unique flavor follow?

What I’m saying is Cuban flavor isn’t coming from a mojo treatment. If it were those who left Cuba years ago could duplicate exactly Cuban cigar flavor. Yet they cannot

Sorry for the ramble I’m typing in a hurry on my phone.
 
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I found the following blend to be smooth, without mojo and less than 24 hours off the rolling table (it's a mimic of @BrewinHooligan Marshmallow blend but slightly tweaked in the name of experimetation):
1 WLT Nic Habano seco
.5 WLT Corojo seco
1 WLT Corojo viso
.5 WLT Dom Ligero
I used the LO Ecuador Shade Seco for wrapper and binder, using the inner part of the leaf as binder and the smaller veined outer part as the wrapper.
I've enjoyed this blend before but hadn't made it in quite a while so made a small batch. I was pleasantly suprised by how smooth it was the very next day.

As a side note, I also substituted in Cibao Valley Criollo ligero for Dominican ligero on the last couple sticks to see what will happen . It won't be a marshmallow blend anymore, it'll be, it'll be....I don't know what it'll be!
 
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When the cigar families left Cuba with their tobacco seed and planted it in other areas of the world, why didn’t that subtle unique flavor follow?
Because the same plant grown in different environment ( soil, light, water) grow into different plants, even when they are genetically identical. I expect that each generation mutates to take advantage of the environment, and after a few generations a unique genetic strain is produced. I have heard stories about people bringing seeds of oriental strains ( which grow in their natural environment in turkey with very small leaves) to the US and after a few generations the leaves are sized similar to domestic strains.

Hot pepper generate more capcesin (the chemical that makes them hot) when the plant is stressed, IE in low rainfall seasons. Plants adapt to their environment to survive.

And this ignores the affect of field cross pollination with similar strains grown in the area ( I don't think a tobacco plant could be pollinated by other than a tobacco plant)
 
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Taste is very subjective. You might love what he hates. That's what makes this stuff fun and each one of us winds up with a unique "signature" blending profile. You may dislike what I'm rolling. Doesn't mean what I'm rolling is bad if I'm loving it.
Heck, Taste is even subjective from one day to another. I bought a wheel of Rosado cigars from CI. I really enjoyed the first 15 or so. Earlier this week, and again last night, I light one and they tasted ashy. Have my tastes changed? Has my body chemistry changed? Have they changed moisture sitting in my humidor? I plan to bring one to share with a BOTL and demine whether its me or the stick.
 
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Heck, Taste is even subjective from one day to another. I bought a wheel of Rosado cigars from CI. I really enjoyed the first 15 or so. Earlier this week, and again last night, I light one and they tasted ashy. Have my tastes changed? Has my body chemistry changed? Have they changed moisture sitting in my humidor? I plan to bring one to share with a BOTL and demine whether its me or the stick.
There's a good chance it's you. The palate is very affected by changes in the PH which is influenced throughout the day by what you eat and drink. This alludes to the importance of the PH of the cigars we roll. Too high PH (alkaline) and the cigar becomes harsh. This is an important role of the 'mojo' is to lower the PH by way of citric acid.

btw... coffee goes so well with cigars not only because of flavor but it has a more acidic PH.
 
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The evidence says to me that unique Cuban tobacco flavor isn’t coming from some mysterious mojo process. The evidence suggests so
What 'evidence' is being suggested?
When the cigar families left Cuba with their tobacco seed and planted it in other areas of the world, why didn’t that subtle unique flavor follow?What I’m saying is Cuban flavor isn’t coming from a mojo treatment. If it were those who left Cuba years ago could duplicate exactly Cuban cigar flavor. Yet they cannot
Padron came from Cuba and produces a world class cigar. Many great cigars are produced in the Dominican and Nicaragua that are some of the finest available. Don Pepin is one of the finest rollers to leave Cuba and now resides in Miami. His cigars are also amazing.
 

Dominican56

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No argument there

Th thrust of my comment is that soil, environmental conditions and other factors influence the flavor and indescribable characteristics of tobacco rather than wide spread application of the magic mojo in commercial applications of cigar making

I’ve got no objection to home rollers using a mojo, however, I dispute the assertion that the unique Cuban tobacco flavor is a result of the widespread application of mojo as you asserted in a previous post.


Each growing region imparts its own unique character to the flavor of tobacco leaf.

I agree completely with you that body chemistry can and does impart differences on how we experience cigars one to another.
 
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I have noticed that some of my blends have a harshness to them in the back of the throat, others are soft and smooth. I'm not taking about vitamin N, I have a reasonable tolerance to that. Is the harshness caused strictly by immature leaf that is still outgassing ammonia and creating the harshness? Is it caused by Ligero in the blend? Should I just set the leaf aside for a defined period of time? Reduce ligero content? something else?

FYI, my standard recipe is 1 leaf each of Ligero, Visio and Seco.


Been ruminating this topic. Did some experimentation and inward debate. Have reached tentative conclusions. These conclusions do not include mojo, aging, nor neglect of appearance.

The whole line of FX Smith's Sons cigars are smooooth. None have an enviable appearance. But they do smoke smooth. You may like the flavor of this one better than the other one, but no one can reasonably say that any variety bites the tongue or throat. Personally, I despise the cherry, vanilla, bourbon, cocoa, etc. infused Tuscororas. But even these, I think, though they might gack your throat, would never bite your tongue. None of the other varieties they make would ever gack you. All these blends have been perfected over a hundred fifty years to be smooth enough so that you can light the next gar off the last gar all day long. And they smoke that smooth basically off the table. Why were they blent to be this way? Because cigars used to be enjoyed that way, one after another, most all day long. That's why they come in boxes of fifty. In their heyday, FXSS rolled nine, ten, twelve million gars a year, and were surrounded by plenty of other manufacturers outputting just as many, selling them by the wheel. A guy calls up today, or comes to the web site, like as not he'll order two to four boxes of fifty, and be back for as many next month. Just spoke to a gal in Virginia who buys 400 at a whack for her old man. He loves to work all day in the yard with a gar in his jaws.

That's not how cigars are enjoyed today. Nope. Nowadays it's more apt to be one powerhouse smoke in the evening, thrice a week. Hence, they are hit me with a baseball bat & get it over with cigars. FX customers often complain to me that whenever they smoke an expensive hand rolled foreign cigar they can't taste anything the rest of the day. They wind up throat-gacked and tongue-tarred. Not what they want. They want to smoke one mild smoothie after another. They don't want to spend a sawbuck for a single stick that prevents them from smoking the next stick out of their box of fifty.

What's in these smoooth FX gars? Predominantly barn cured CT & PA broadleaf, with broadleaf binder & broadleaf or CT shade wrapper. There may be a sprinkle of Honduran or Dominican; maybe as much as five percent. That's as outlandish as the filler gets. One budget blend goes so far as to use an Indonesian shade wrapper. Popular gar; but not exactly a flavor bomb ignited in yer mouth. They want leaf that gets you coming back over and over.

What leaf goes in one of your ten buck store boughts? Strong distinctive flavors go in there: Corojo, criollo, habano, flojo, mata, piloto, San Andres ... fermented to be powerful, & blent by leather tongued gar gobblers each one desperate to out-do the next. They want leaf to knock your socks off.

What is therefore made available to us as amateurs? Leaves like the store boughts use. We heard about it, we gotta try it. Corojo, criollo, habano, flojo, mata, piloto ... etc. What's more, it's made available as seco, viso, and ligero. Heard about it, apt to buy all three. You want to up the chances for flavor bombs to collide? Start with recondite distinctive strong flavors then proceed to more strength. Who among us regularly buys CT or PA broadleaf filler to make a humble gar that we can light one after the next? No. We tend to take the knock your socks off approach.

I experimented Sunday. Smoked a Smith Perfecto Natural down to the nub, followed by a store bought Nostalgia. The first left me pleased, happy, and ready for more; but by half the second I was ready for full stop. Yet the Nostalgia is nowhere near Torano's strongest gar. Not even. And I love Toranos.

Yesterday, other way round. Started with my home rolled Uppowoc Mataloto. Smooth, rich, piloto and mata, bound & wrapped in Ec habano, aged a year and a half. Loved every puff of it; but sure not ready to hit anything else after.

Here's my main point right here: Swinging for the fences encourages extreme results. If we hit it, we hope to hit it out of the park. But... When we foul it off, it's gonna land in the nose bleeds. Most often, we just strike out. Nor have we any prospect of a century and a half to perfect our work. That's not to say you can't get a smooth result from strong ingredients. But it seems more likely you will get a harsh result when you don't.

The slightest mis-match can screw a blend. You know that? Plays well with A does not imply plays well with B. Here's an example of that: I love that olor binder. Dom56 hates that Olor. Shipped his despised olor to me. Turns out his is Olor ligero. I've been playing with that T 13. Rosado wrap, olor binder, all T 13 within, you get a dandy gar. Rosado wrap, Sumatra binder, T 13, you get a super mild gar lacking something. Rosado wrap, Sumatra binder, T 13, half a leaf olor ligero at the core, you get a horrible gack you can't smoke half of. I have tried Rosado wrap, Sumatra binder, T 13, as little as a third of a half of a leaf of olor ligero at the core, & all I get is awful. Turns out olor seco binder works does not imply olor ligero works.

Here's my recommendations... Either:

A) Start with a mild filler, like the Cibao VA seco, the Dom seco, or the T13 that's just come available now. Seco, I said; not ligero. Keep things dry as you can. Don't muck it up with too many different components to go wrong. Simple. Surround it with mild wrappers. Go from there. Play what the big leaguers call small ball.

Or...

B) Accept you will have to fight your way thru a lot of gackworthy harsh failures in search of one smooth strong blend that knocks it out of the park.

Make sense?
 

Dominican56

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I have noticed that some of my blends have a harshness to them in the back of the throat, others are soft and smooth. I'm not taking about vitamin N, I have a reasonable tolerance to that. Is the harshness caused strictly by immature leaf that is still outgassing ammonia and creating the harshness? Is it caused by Ligero in the blend? Should I just set the leaf aside for a defined period of time? Reduce ligero content? something else?

FYI, my standard recipe is 1 leaf each of Ligero, Visio and Seco.
Back on track. For me, it's the leaf. As mentioned some leaf gives you that back of the throat experience. I've listed some of the leaf doing that for me.
Typically for me the back-of-the-throat bad experience is from these leafs. (not a complete list, I'm sure)
Honduran viso really bad I'd quit cigars if they all had this in 'em
Nicaraguan viso Mostly strong but it's back the throat for me...
Olor: both seco and ligero (sent both to web) Really bad (some cigar reviewers don't like Olor either.
T-13 to a lesser extent
the new Rosato wrapper - incidentally it's too strong for my tastes
LO PA binder and wrappers (then again I never liked Connecticut or PA wrapped cigars) except that LO ctls 1.

this isn't to be confused with the leaf I simply don't like:
Nicaraguan binder for example. Tastes like it's fertilized with cow shit or something unpleasant, it's simply something I don't like.

I've become quite a cigar snob since making my own. I tried an Oliva O last night, was awful. It's simply too one note-- pepper. I used to like 'em.

You'll go through a lot of leaf finding what you like and don't like. It would be nice if we had an exchange where we could trade off the leaf we don't care for, and someone else might like it.

Blending I'm finding is a bit like cooking. Spice in the correct amount is good. A little more and it's a completely different dish.
As far as tastes go. I like fennel seed in my red sauce, Barb hates it even though, as do I, she likes black licorice.
Pepper will counteract sweetness in a dish, a sweet tobacco leaf (lots of saccharides) will offset the pepper given from another tobacco leaf in the blend. It's a matter of what balance YOU like. Some folks here like mostly seco in a blend. I find that to be out of balance.
I've found 3 core blends I really like. To discover what else might work, I'll change out one leaf in a particular blend to see what happens. Naturally I have some idea of what flavor I'm trying to introduce. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

And, sometimes I've hacked together some leaf I was thinking about at the moment and had spectacular results. Sadly, most of those I didn't record the blend and couldn't recall exactly what it was the next day. I mostly roll one the night before so it can dry out sufficiently for the next day, thinking to myself that I'll recall what I put in the darn thing. Big mistake on my part. So, always jot down your blend.
 

Dominican56

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Been ruminating this topic. Did some experimentation and inward debate. Have reached tentative conclusions. These conclusions do not include mojo, aging, nor neglect of appearance.

The whole line of FX Smith's Sons cigars are smooooth. None have an enviable appearance. But they do smoke smooth. You may like the flavor of this one better than the other one, but no one can reasonably say that any variety bites the tongue or throat. Personally, I despise the cherry, vanilla, bourbon, cocoa, etc. infused Tuscororas. But even these, I think, though they might gack your throat, would never bite your tongue. None of the other varieties they make would ever gack you. All these blends have been perfected over a hundred fifty years to be smooth enough so that you can light the next gar off the last gar all day long. And they smoke that smooth basically off the table. Why were they blent to be this way? Because cigars used to be enjoyed that way, one after another, most all day long. That's why they come in boxes of fifty. In their heyday, FXSS rolled nine, ten, twelve million gars a year, and were surrounded by plenty of other manufacturers outputting just as many, selling them by the wheel. A guy calls up today, or comes to the web site, like as not he'll order two to four boxes of fifty, and be back for as many next month. Just spoke to a gal in Virginia who buys 400 at a whack for her old man. He loves to work all day in the yard with a gar in his jaws.

That's not how cigars are enjoyed today. Nope. Nowadays it's more apt to be one powerhouse smoke in the evening, thrice a week. Hence, they are hit me with a baseball bat & get it over with cigars. FX customers often complain to me that whenever they smoke an expensive hand rolled foreign cigar they can't taste anything the rest of the day. They wind up throat-gacked and tongue-tarred. Not what they want. They want to smoke one mild smoothie after another. They don't want to spend a sawbuck for a single stick that prevents them from smoking the next stick out of their box of fifty.

What's in these smoooth FX gars? Predominantly barn cured CT & PA broadleaf, with broadleaf binder & broadleaf or CT shade wrapper. There may be a sprinkle of Honduran or Dominican; maybe as much as five percent. That's as outlandish as the filler gets. One budget blend goes so far as to use an Indonesian shade wrapper. Popular gar; but not exactly a flavor bomb ignited in yer mouth. They want leaf that gets you coming back over and over.

What leaf goes in one of your ten buck store boughts? Strong distinctive flavors go in there: Corojo, criollo, habano, flojo, mata, piloto, San Andres ... fermented to be powerful, & blent by leather tongued gar gobblers each one desperate to out-do the next. They want leaf to knock your socks off.

What is therefore made available to us as amateurs? Leaves like the store boughts use. We heard about it, we gotta try it. Corojo, criollo, habano, flojo, mata, piloto ... etc. What's more, it's made available as seco, viso, and ligero. Heard about it, apt to buy all three. You want to up the chances for flavor bombs to collide? Start with recondite distinctive strong flavors then proceed to more strength. Who among us regularly buys CT or PA broadleaf filler to make a humble gar that we can light one after the next? No. We tend to take the knock your socks off approach.

I experimented Sunday. Smoked a Smith Perfecto Natural down to the nub, followed by a store bought Nostalgia. The first left me pleased, happy, and ready for more; but by half the second I was ready for full stop. Yet the Nostalgia is nowhere near Torano's strongest gar. Not even. And I love Toranos.

Yesterday, other way round. Started with my home rolled Uppowoc Mataloto. Smooth, rich, piloto and mata, bound & wrapped in Ec habano, aged a year and a half. Loved every puff of it; but sure not ready to hit anything else after.

Here's my main point right here: Swinging for the fences encourages extreme results. If we hit it, we hope to hit it out of the park. But... When we foul it off, it's gonna land in the nose bleeds. Most often, we just strike out. Nor have we any prospect of a century and a half to perfect our work. That's not to say you can't get a smooth result from strong ingredients. But it seems more likely you will get a harsh result when you don't.

The slightest mis-match can screw a blend. You know that? Plays well with A does not imply plays well with B. Here's an example of that: I love that olor binder. Dom56 hates that Olor. Shipped his despised olor to me. Turns out his is Olor ligero. I've been playing with that T 13. Rosado wrap, olor binder, all T 13 within, you get a dandy gar. Rosado wrap, Sumatra binder, T 13, you get a super mild gar lacking something. Rosado wrap, Sumatra binder, T 13, half a leaf olor ligero at the core, you get a horrible gack you can't smoke half of. I have tried Rosado wrap, Sumatra binder, T 13, as little as a third of a half of a leaf of olor ligero at the core, & all I get is awful. Turns out olor seco binder works does not imply olor ligero works.

Here's my recommendations... Either:

A) Start with a mild filler, like the Cibao VA seco, the Dom seco, or the T13 that's just come available now. Seco, I said; not ligero. Keep things dry as you can. Don't muck it up with too many different components to go wrong. Simple. Surround it with mild wrappers. Go from there. Play what the big leaguers call small ball.

Or...

B) Accept you will have to fight your way thru a lot of gackworthy harsh failures in search of one smooth strong blend that knocks it out of the park.

Make sense?
That's a lot to say, Grandpa! LOL
 

akpreacherplayz

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Back on track. For me, it's the leaf. As mentioned some leaf gives you that back of the throat experience. I've listed some of the leaf doing that for me.
Typically for me the back-of-the-throat bad experience is from these leafs. (not a complete list, I'm sure)
Honduran viso really bad I'd quit cigars if they all had this in 'em
Nicaraguan viso Mostly strong but it's back the throat for me...
Olor: both seco and ligero (sent both to web) Really bad (some cigar reviewers don't like Olor either.
T-13 to a lesser extent
the new Rosato wrapper - incidentally it's too strong for my tastes
LO PA binder and wrappers (then again I never liked Connecticut or PA wrapped cigars) except that LO ctls 1.

this isn't to be confused with the leaf I simply don't like:
Nicaraguan binder for example. Tastes like it's fertilized with cow shit or something unpleasant, it's simply something I don't like.

I've become quite a cigar snob since making my own. I tried an Oliva O last night, was awful. It's simply too one note-- pepper. I used to like 'em.

You'll go through a lot of leaf finding what you like and don't like. It would be nice if we had an exchange where we could trade off the leaf we don't care for, and someone else might like it.

Blending I'm finding is a bit like cooking. Spice in the correct amount is good. A little more and it's a completely different dish.
As far as tastes go. I like fennel seed in my red sauce, Barb hates it even though, as do I, she likes black licorice.
Pepper will counteract sweetness in a dish, a sweet tobacco leaf (lots of saccharides) will offset the pepper given from another tobacco leaf in the blend. It's a matter of what balance YOU like. Some folks here like mostly seco in a blend. I find that to be out of balance.
I've found 3 core blends I really like. To discover what else might work, I'll change out one leaf in a particular blend to see what happens. Naturally I have some idea of what flavor I'm trying to introduce. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

And, sometimes I've hacked together some leaf I was thinking about at the moment and had spectacular results. Sadly, most of those I didn't record the blend and couldn't recall exactly what it was the next day. I mostly roll one the night before so it can dry out sufficiently for the next day, thinking to myself that I'll recall what I put in the darn thing. Big mistake on my part. So, always jot down your blend.
A leaf exchange thread might be cool I’m wanting to try more leaf


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

akpreacherplayz

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What are you looking to try?
The only leaf I’ve tried is:

Dom Seco Olor
Dom Ligero Olor
Eco Viso Shade Wrapper
Eco Seco

So pretty much anything else lol

I’ve been really interested in Brazilian leaf I just don’t if it would work with what I have already.
 
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