creating a smooth blend

[webmost]

The only leaf I’ve tried is:

Dom Seco Olor
Dom Ligero Olor
Eco Viso Shade Wrapper
Eco Seco

So pretty much anything else lol

I’ve been really interested in Brazilian leaf I just don’t if it would work with what I have already.

I have a half dozen sample bags Don sent me. I have Mata and Flojo... I think Flojo is Brazilian. I'll see what I can fit in a flat rate priority box cause anything other thsn flat rate costs a fortune to ship to Alaska. PM me your address.

You like the olor ligero? I like the deco but the ligero is gackworthy.

 

[blisscigarco]

I have a half dozen sample bags Don sent me. I have Mata and Flojo... I think Flojo is Brazilian. I'll see what I can fit in a flat rate priority box cause anything other thsn flat rate costs a fortune to ship to Alaska. PM me your address.

You like the olor ligero? I like the deco but the ligero is gackworthy.

I like the ligero a lot.

 

[akpreacherplayz]

I have a half dozen sample bags Don sent me. I have Mata and Flojo... I think Flojo is Brazilian. I'll see what I can fit in a flat rate priority box cause anything other thsn flat rate costs a fortune to ship to Alaska. PM me your address.

You like the olor ligero? I like the deco but the ligero is gackworthy.

Wow I would really appreciate that! I’m not sure if I like the Ligero or if it’s just because I made it that I like it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[webmost]

or if it’s just because I made it that I like it.

That happens.

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Sent from my ... whywould iCare

 

[ras_oscar]

I've been noticing on commercial cigars I enjoy that I can see a small crescent of dark leaf in the filler. Like a quarter leaf. Perhaps I've been using too much Ligero in my blends. Gonna try dialing it down from a full leaf to a half leaf.

 

[Jim D]

From the "Blending thread" :
http://www.botl.org/posts/1813682/

Had a weird thought this morning after my damn cat woke me up at 5:50 a.m. and I stared at the ceiling for the next two hours. I was wondering if there's some underlying mathematical rule to what constitutes a good blend, and something popped into my head for blends that have worked for me. Mind, "blend" for me is the Cuban meaning, where it's percentages of one set of primings, because I use only one set of leaves for all my "blends," and the same binder and wrapper across all blends, so the degrees of flavor/aroma/strength/burn are always consistent, as they would be in a Cuban cigar factory. Here's what I came up with:

The 1 2 3 = 6 blending rule
Seco = 1, viso 2, ligero 3.
Total for a good blend should be 6-6.5 pts across 3-3.5 leaves for a medium-sized vitola.

Sample blends that I have rolled and I know are good:
Balanced: 1 seco(1), 1 viso(2), 1 ligero(3) = 6
More burn, rich flavor: 2 seco(2) + 1/2 viso(1) + 1 ligero(3) = 6
Strong and good: 1.5 seco(1.5) + 1.5 ligero(4.5) = 6
Med-Strong with an emphasis on viso aroma: .5 seco(.5) + 2 viso (4) + .5 ligero(1.5) = 6
Strong with emphasis on ligero flavor: 1 seco(1) + 1/4 viso(.5) + 1.5 ligero(4.5) = 6
Mild but with good viso aroma: 2 seco(2) + 2 viso(4) = 6
Classic mild Cuban robusto: 1 seco(1) + 2 viso(4) + "skinny 1/2, i.e. 1/3" ligero(1) = 6

When you start coming up with blends that don't equal six, they might be more prone to problems of overall balance. This idea was inspired when I was reading an interview with an old Cuban lady roller from Laguito where she talks about how to modify the blends: there was always a balance thing going on: "If I want to add some of this, I have to take away some of that." Whether it was a strong, mild, whatever blend, it was balanced.

 

[webmost]

1) La vieja torcedorita de Laguito may be a dispositive authority on the subject, even when referred third hand ... or not. What does her viejo say? What does el Patron say? What does Fidel say?

2) All this six ignores both binder and wrapper.

3) The very few Bliss sticks I have smoked have been gems in appearance but unremarkable in flavor.

Don't get me wrong. I could not more match Bliss's artistic skill than I could tango, but... Why six? Says who? How's the binder score? How's the wrapper score? Why's a gackworthy Olor ligero score the same 3 as a Nic ligero? What would a leaf from the tip top of a CT shade score, for that matter? And how do I rate a WLT Mata Fina leaf which is designated neither viso, seco, nor ligero?

 

[Jim D]

1) La vieja torcedorita de Laguito may be a dispositive authority on the subject, even when referred third hand ... or not. What does her viejo say? What does el Patron say? What does Fidel say?

2) All this six ignores both binder and wrapper.

3) The very few Bliss sticks I have smoked have been gems in appearance but unremarkable in flavor.

Don't get me wrong. I could not more match Bliss's artistic skill than I could tango, but... Why six? Says who? How's the binder score? How's the wrapper score? Why's a gackworthy Olor ligero score the same 3 as a Nic ligero? What would a leaf from the tip top of a CT shade score, for that matter? And how do I rate a WLT Mata Fina leaf which is designated neither viso, seco, nor ligero?

All great questions in the wonderful world of subjectivity and opinion on tobacco flavors @webmost .

 

[Dominican56]

It is not convincing to my limited mind that favorable cigar blends can be reduced to a mathematical formula

Take the top 6 most active home rollers who post here, I have no doubt that one would find 6 quite different opinions on what a good blend is. I suppose smoothness plays into that, too.

 

[Jim D]

We all agree that seco, viso, and ligero have a different impact. They all come from a different part of the plant. This formula doesn't try to assume what one likes or doesn't like, it just weights the value each leaf is providing.
For instance, if like a blend you have made and want to tweak it, the formula can give some structure to the tweaking.
Edit:
Some folks like processes and formulas. Some folks like art and intuition. To each his own, just thought I'd share the info with the OP as I don't know his disposition.

 

[Jan Bynens]

I don't give it too much tough !
A bit more body ? 0.5 - 1 more leave of viso !
A bit more power ? 0.5 - 1 more leave of ligero !
Important is also that there is a lot in difference in the same kind of leaves.

 

[Dominican56]

We all agree that seco, viso, and ligero have a different impact. They all come from a different part of the plant. This formula doesn't try to assume what one likes or doesn't like, it just weights the value each leaf is providing.
For instance, if like a blend you have made and want to tweak it, the formula can give some structure to the tweaking.
Edit:
Some folks like processes and formulas. Some folks like art and intuition. To each his own, just thought I'd share the info with the OP as I don't know his disposition.

Where the math falls down is that it cannot account for the difference in, say, ligero for one example.
A Nicaraguan leaf will have a different influence on a given blend than say a Dominican ligero. The math would have to factor that, wouldn’t it?

I’m not arguing with you, I simply cannot wrap my head around using an equation to formulate a cigar recipe. The variables, well there are too many at play.

 

[Jan Bynens]

Where the math falls down is that it cannot account for the difference in, say, ligero for one example.
A Nicaraguan leaf will have a different influence on a given blend than say a Dominican ligero. The math would have to factor that, wouldn’t it?

I’m not arguing with you, I simply cannot wrap my head around using an equation to formulate a cigar recipe. The variables, well there are too many at play.

Even in the same batch of let's say Nica ligero, there is a lot of difference between the leaves.
I know cigar makers here who rearrange their tobacco when after they buy it.

 

[ras_oscar]

Where the math falls down is that it cannot account for the difference in, say, ligero for one example.
A Nicaraguan leaf will have a different influence on a given blend than say a Dominican ligero. The math would have to factor that, wouldn’t it? I’m not arguing with you, I simply cannot wrap my head around using an equation to formulate a cigar recipe. The variables, well there are too many at play.

I don't think it needs to be a rigorous as a formula, more like a starting point. Consider; When I brew beer I can go to the style guide and get the definitive grain and hops bill for the standard beer. Do I use that to brew? no. I use it as a starting point. I brew up a batch, taste it then fiddle around. We are using plant leaves instead of seeds, so the variance from one season to the next is even larger. In addition, there are no standard styles and therefore no standard recipes, so having a starting point controlling at least the ratios of ecach of the filler leaves helps.

 

[Dominican56]

I don't think it needs to be a rigorous as a formula, more like a starting point. Consider; When I brew beer I can go to the style guide and get the definitive grain and hops bill for the standard beer. Do I use that to brew? no. I use it as a starting point. I brew up a batch, taste it then fiddle around. We are using plant leaves instead of seeds, so the variance from one season to the next is even larger. In addition, there are no standard styles and therefore no standard recipes, so having a starting point controlling at least the ratios of ecach of the filler leaves helps.

I suppose that’s fair.
I use a 1:1:1 filler to start, not counting binder and wrapper, then I adjust leaf from that starting point.

1:1:1 isn’t truly that ratio because my leaf isn’t sorted to size. I use it as it comes out of the bag. Sometimes the seco is way out of proportion in size to the viso and ligero. Sometimes it’s the other filler leaf that’s bigger or smaller. Not a problem for me because I don’t really care.

 

[Dominican56]

As far as a rich smooth blend I’ve been using the
LO Nicaraguan Ligero Jalapa, (very nice flavor, no back of the throat burn)
Piloto viso
and a couple of different seco.


Columbian binder and Corojo Oscuro wrapper with a 2x2 inch piece of perique cut into half inch strips. It’s 2x2 stretched out and looks much smaller when it’s in the naturally shrunken form.

I lay the perique strips the length of the stick, overlapping in the middle.

I’m going to shift the overlap toward the tip from now on tho.

 

[webmost]

It is not convincing to my limited mind that favorable cigar blends can be reduced to a mathematical formula

I'd be very surprised if a mathematical formula DIDN'T offer something to instruct us. Formulae reduce most everything else... why not this? Everything from sea shells to the golden mean to recipes. It's not just the physical sciences. Architecture begins with math as a foundation for taste. Music begins with defined scales and proceeds to taste. I hold with old Pyhtagoras who founded a religion the main tenet of which was that numbers are how God speaks to the universe. The argument is not whether numbers may instruct us, but what is the scale. Something logarithmic? A yet undiscovered pi? A simple proportion? My argument is not that it's all taste and chaos. I say it's almost certainly order first with taste after.

But that order should include binder and wrapper, should be derived over time by enlightened minds, and stand the test of time.

The innerwebz tells me Einstein smoked a blend of bright flake, Virginia, burley, latakia and perique. Helped him think, he said. Was it balanced?

I abhor the tendency of every discussion to descend to the same old chestnut "it's all personal taste". Cop out relativity adds nothing to the discussion. On the contrary, it puts a stop to discussion. Nihilism and apathy. Discussion also requires fundamentals.

 

[Jim D]

I'd be very surprised if a mathematical formula DIDN'T offer something to instruct us. Formulae reduce most everything else... why not this? Everything from sea shells to the golden mean to recipes. It's not just the physical sciences. Architecture begins with math as a foundation for taste. Music begins with defined scales and proceeds to taste. I hold with old Pyhtagoras who founded a religion the main tenet of which was that numbers are how God speaks to the universe. The argument is not whether numbers may instruct us, but what is the scale. Something logarithmic? A yet undiscovered pi? A simple proportion? My argument is not that it's all taste and chaos. I say it's almost certainly order first with taste after.

But that order should include binder and wrapper, should be derived over time by enlightened minds, and stand the test of time.

The innerwebz tells me Einstein smoked a blend of bright flake, Virginia, burley, latakia and perique. Helped him think, he said. Was it balanced?

I abhor the tendency of every discussion to descend to the same old chestnut "it's all personal taste". Cop out relativity adds nothing to the discussion. On the contrary, it puts a stop to discussion. Nihilism and apathy. Discussion also requires fundamentals.

Sometimes, I've used up all my debating energy on the homefront. At that point, I concede online. Sorry to short you on that.
I'll add more in a bit....

 

[Dominican56]

Too many variables involved. Heck we have limited vocabulary to describe leaf flavor other than to relate those tastes to food or spice.

There is no scovel rating on leaf that I know of not any other rating other than nicotine content. How are you going to reduce that to an expression with arguments?

I’d be shocked if there were any higher math involved in cigar taste blending outside of an expression of leaf ratio we are discussing.

Ratio is not really a mathematic formula. At least not a higher level one, anyway.

We are over thinking this a lot. Interesting though.

 

[Jim D]

I just like it as a guestimate of what would happen if I adjust ratios of leaves in a blend. Keeping all the same filler's I've stumbled upon liking, what might happen if I add more of one and take out another?
Or maybe keeping it more basic still, one with more seco loading will be "burnier" whereas one loaded for viso will be more aromatic.

I wonder if we weighed and averaged 100 secos, 100 visos, and 100 ligeros from a specific strain of tobacco, if those average weights would show viso weighs 2 times seco and ligero weighs 3 times seco. If a blender were blending by weight, and these averages worked, then to maintain a constant weight/feel per cigar, the formula could be applied.

In the end, I've enjoyed using it as a thumb rule. The first home roll I enjoyed from the fruit of my efforts was 1.5 nic seco and 1.5 nic ligero. I hadn't seen this formula then but it worked out.
1.5seco + 1.5 ligero is three leaves.
Using the weighting,
1.5 + 4.5 = 6
Coincidence? I think not!