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Flavor profiles more distinct in CCs?

Jwrussell

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I have a few thoughts running through my head on this topic, and I'll start with this one.

To me, the flavor profiles of Cubans are very distinct between brands, but less so between individual cigars within the brands. I didn't find this to be the case when I was smoking NC's as much, but I was "turned" early in my smoking career, so I'm curious, do you all find this to be the case or is it pretty much this way regardless of CC or NC?

Or do you think I'm off my rocker all together? :wink:
 

njstone

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Interesting. I agree and disagree, I suppose.

On the one hand I agree completely that there is a big difference between flavor profile when you move from marca to marca ... once you're familiar with a marca, you wouldn't mistake a Bolivar for an HdM, or an Upmann for a Trinidad--it's almost laughable.

But I find that to be prettty much true with NCs as well, as long as you replace "marca" with "manufacturer." If you don't do that, then yes, I'd say there is a lot less difference between a Tobacco Baez and a My Father than there is between a Partagas and a Bolivar. But if you look at manufacturers instead of cigar lines, I think it's comparable to the Cuban world.

For example, it might be tougher to tell the difference between 2 different Don Pepin maduros (say, a Murcielago and a LAdC Mi Amor), but you won't mistake either for an LFD. Know what I mean? There are just SO many NCs in comparison to CCs, but different NC manufacturers tend to blend with certian comonalities, so you'll find some continuity within most manufacturer's lines (there are exceptions, such as when a manufactuer comes out with a truley different "company within a company" ... i.e. Liga Privada, Ashton).

But on the vitola issue, I have found the opposite to be true (if I understand your post correctly). With CCs, I find there is often a lot of variation within a marca (not as much as marca to marca, though).

For example, I love Bolivar. If a Boli PC (or CG) is taken as the standard Boli profile (which I would argue it should be), then you might say "the CE is a spicier Boli," but the CE is still a classic Bolivar, even if it's spicer and fuller in body. The Royal Corona, however, diverges moreso (imvho) in that it's creamier and has a floral component to it as well. The Gold Medal is also said to diverge more from the classic Bolivar profile (I've not had one yet). So that is noticable diversity within the marca ... and what's funny is that I think Bolivar is one of the LEAST diverse marcas! Look at H. Upmann or HdM ... some real extremes in there.

NCs, however, are not as diverse from vitola to vitola. By-and-large when looking at sizes for most NCs the main decision is simply one of smoking time ... robusto or churchill? There is more diversity when you look at extreme ring guage differnces, of course.

The exceptions to this rule are cigars like Illusione and Tatuaje. A Tat Noella is a completely different cigar than the Especiales ... even though those are both thin-ring sticks within the Brown label line. Yet, if smoked blind you would find a comonality to the two, even though they are very different. For this reason I look at cigar lines like the Tat Brown and the Illusione "Original Document" to be examples of NC lines that mimic CC marcas.

Okay, that was really long, lol. Hopefully some of that made sense :)
 
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Interesting. I agree and disagree, I suppose.

On the one hand I agree completely that there is a big difference between flavor profile when you move from marca to marca ... once you're familiar with a marca, you wouldn't mistake a Bolivar for an HdM, or an Upmann for a Trinidad--it's almost laughable.

But I find that to be prettty much true with NCs as well, as long as you replace "marca" with "manufacturer." If you don't do that, then yes, I'd say there is a lot less difference between a Tobacco Baez and a My Father than there is between a Partagas and a Bolivar. But if you look at manufacturers instead of cigar lines, I think it's comparable to the Cuban world.

For example, it might be tougher to tell the difference between 2 different Don Pepin maduros (say, a Murcielago and a LAdC Mi Amor), but you won't mistake either for an LFD. Know what I mean? There are just SO many NCs in comparison to CCs, but different NC manufacturers tend to blend with certian comonalities, so you'll find some continuity within most manufacturer's lines (there are exceptions, such as when a manufactuer comes out with a truley different "company within a company" ... i.e. Liga Privada, Ashton).

But on the vitola issue, I have found the opposite to be true (if I understand your post correctly). With CCs, I find there is often a lot of variation within a marca (not as much as marca to marca, though).

For example, I love Bolivar. If a Boli PC (or CG) is taken as the standard Boli profile (which I would argue it should be), then you might say "the CE is a spicier Boli," but the CE is still a classic Bolivar, even if it's spicer and fuller in body. The Royal Corona, however, diverges moreso (imvho) in that it's creamier and has a floral component to it as well. The Gold Medal is also said to diverge more from the classic Bolivar profile (I've not had one yet). So that is noticable diversity within the marca ... and what's funny is that I think Bolivar is one of the LEAST diverse marcas! Look at H. Upmann or HdM ... some real extremes in there.

NCs, however, are not as diverse from vitola to vitola. By-and-large when looking at sizes for most NCs the main decision is simply one of smoking time ... robusto or churchill? There is more diversity when you look at extreme ring guage differnces, of course.

The exceptions to this rule are cigars like Illusione and Tatuaje. A Tat Noella is a completely different cigar than the Especiales ... even though those are both thin-ring sticks within the Brown label line. Yet, if smoked blind you would find a comonality to the two, even though they are very different. For this reason I look at cigar lines like the Tat Brown and the Illusione "Original Document" to be examples of NC lines that mimic CC marcas.

Okay, that was really long, lol. Hopefully some of that made sense :)
What he said...
 
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Interesting you brought this up. I was talking with someone who has smoked CC since the 80's. They feel that the distinct flavor profile of each brand has been lost.
 

Hot_Sauce

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Interesting you brought this up. I was talking with someone who has smoked CC since the 80's. They feel that the distinct flavor profile of each brand has been lost.
I agree. While I have not been smoking CC's since the 80's I think that they have became more homogenized since they started up switching all the factory codes. The 04 to current cigars smoke better when young now. (in general) But I don't feel that they are aging as well.:frown:


Also from the blind reviews that have been done on this site, as well as from what I have seen on others. Reviewers are not having a very high rate of pegging the cigars that they sample?
 
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you can really taste the difference between marcas for cubans. Cohibas have a distinctive taste. Patrtagas, ramon allones and bolivars have that stronger, earthy, bolder flavours. Cohibas, particularly aged ones are more refined. Cocoa, vanilla and creaminess with nuances of tea.

I agree with njstone. Difference is based on manufacturer vs. marca. For example, Pepins seem to be based on varying degrees of pepperiness.
 

Hot_Sauce

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Here is a bet I'm willing to offer up.

I'll send you 5 unbanded Cuban cigars to review on this site.

If you nail 4 out of the 5 cigars marca's. I'll give you major props and eat crow.

If you cant peg at least 4 out of the 5 you re-emburse me for the cigars. I'll ship for free, as I would like to see more blind reviews posted on this forum.

Shoot me a PM if you want to take me up on this offer? I'll review the applicants and pick 2 BOTL's for this challange.

FYI Maverickdrinker and Jwrussell will get priority though
 
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Here is a bet I'm willing to offer up.

I'll send you 5 unbanded Cuban cigars to review on this site.

If you nail 4 out of the 5 cigars marca's. I'll give you major props and eat crow.

If you cant peg at least 4 out of the 5 you re-emburse me for the cigars. I'll ship for free, as I would like to see more blind reviews posted on this forum.

Shoot me a PM if you want to take me up on this offer? I'll review the applicants and pick 2 BOTL's for this challange.

FYI Maverickdrinker and Jwrussell will get priority though
I really look forward to seeing this! Very generous offer.
 

Docbp87

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Here is a bet I'm willing to offer up.

I'll send you 5 unbanded Cuban cigars to review on this site.

If you nail 4 out of the 5 cigars marca's. I'll give you major props and eat crow.

If you cant peg at least 4 out of the 5 you re-emburse me for the cigars. I'll ship for free, as I would like to see more blind reviews posted on this forum.

Shoot me a PM if you want to take me up on this offer? I'll review the applicants and pick 2 BOTL's for this challange.

FYI Maverickdrinker and Jwrussell will get priority though
Would love to do this, but I don't think I have enough experience with different marcas to have a fair shot at this. Look forward to seeing someone try it though...
 

Jwrussell

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Here is a bet I'm willing to offer up.

I'll send you 5 unbanded Cuban cigars to review on this site.

If you nail 4 out of the 5 cigars marca's. I'll give you major props and eat crow.

If you cant peg at least 4 out of the 5 you re-emburse me for the cigars. I'll ship for free, as I would like to see more blind reviews posted on this forum.

Shoot me a PM if you want to take me up on this offer? I'll review the applicants and pick 2 BOTL's for this challange.

FYI Maverickdrinker and Jwrussell will get priority though
Damnit, why are you stealing my idea? I'll take you up on it, but I'm still going to do something along the same lines. :thumbsup:

Fair warning, I don't expect to do well with this unless the marcas are ones I tend to gravitate towards. There are a number I've never even tried. Still, I dig the concept.

Memorial day weekend coming up will be a perfect for this.
 
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sure, let's try it.

To be up front, most of my experience has been with cohiba, montecristo, bolivar and ramon allones. This will be interesting.

Let's give it a try.

Will send a pm with my addy.

Thanks for including me in this. Should be fun.
 

njstone

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Sweet idea, I love it!

I too have heard that the marcas are less distinct than they used to be, but I have no frame of reference.
 

Hot_Sauce

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Alright!!

Looks like Jason & Art want to take the challenge.:applause:

I'll get your addy's and put togather a couple of fivers for you guys to review. Will try to get them out later this week.
 

Zedman05

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Great idea guys, I love the concept. I am like most on this forum, have had enough to know I like them, but not enough to be able to pick them out. Interesting to see what comes in the results.
 
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Jwrussell

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Interesting you brought this up. I was talking with someone who has smoked CC since the 80's. They feel that the distinct flavor profile of each brand has been lost.
This is an interesting statement. It sounds awful definitive (I can't for the life of me figure out what word I'm looking for here), though. I mean if it were truly "lost" then would people even still refer to the individual marca's flavors anymore? I guess I'll be putting my words to the test with Kirk's little bet, but I have trouble believing someone thinks that Bolivar or Partagas, just for examples, flavors have disappeared. Or am I misreading the statement? To say that they've lost SOME of their distinction I'm sure could be argued (I wouldn't know as my frame of reference is late 90's and beyond), but to simply say that the distinct flavors are gone seems an overstatement to me.
 
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