Heartfelt beads suddenly not holding 65%

[RiverRat]

Michiganm, believe me, I get it.

However, if you have a humi filled with cigars, and have that humi stabilized at 70/70, then put that humi in a 60º temperature for 3 days, open it up, and read that digi hygro, it will not read 70%.

When the humi is again stabilized at 70º,(say for 72 hours, it will read 70%.

That is all....

 

[MichiganM]

Michiganm, believe me, I get it.

However, if you have a humi filled with cigars, and have that humi stabilized at 70/70, then put that humi in a 60º temperature for 3 days, open it up, and read that digi hygro, it will not read 70%.

When the humi is again stabilized at 70º,(say for 72 hours, it will read 70%.

That is all....

If you do this experiment without media you mean?? I already said in my last post they have a relationship that is broken once you introduce media. I can't put it to you any plainer. I just wanted some of the fine BOTL's here to know that chart you posted is 100 percent false and bogus. I didn't want any of the people who didn't know any better to try and get a 83 percent RH reading on their hygro to equal 70 at 70. That is all, we can agree to disagree. Enjoy your cigars.

 

[RiverRat]

michiganM,
if you do the above test, the only things that change are the temperature and the hygrometer reading.

The humidity inside that humidor does not change. It does not change when the humi is returned and stabilized at 70º.

The chart is nothing more than a temperature compensation chart.

One does not try to get the humidity up to 83% to compensate. The hygro may read 83%, but that is only because of the temperature change.

It is a compensation chart. Nothing more.

 

[MichiganM]

michiganM,
if you do the above test, the only things that change are the temperature and the hygrometer reading.

The humidity inside that humidor does not change. It does not change when the humi is returned and stabilized at 70º.

QUOTE]

So, basically what you're saying is that the hygro may read 99 percent RH, but the humidity inside your humi never changed. Man, I should just get rid of my hygros since they just read figures based on temp. Dude, you make no sense...I mean none. The hygro reading changes, but not the humidity inside the humidor. Whatever man, good luck with all that.

 

[MichiganM]

One does not try to get the humidity up to 83% to compensate. The hygro may read 83%, but that is only because of the temperature change.

I doubt anyone who stores cigars will ever see a hygro read 83 percent. Unless temp changed 10 degrees or more within 10 minutes. Your MEDIA MEDIA MEDIA breaks the relationship between temp and humi. My lord, how many times do I have to tell ya? You can tell me that you've seen a reading like that, and I say false. Your knowledge about humidity and storing cigars in general seems limited at best.

 

[RonC]

I have a read a lot of info on this topic. I have also got some differing opinions from some people in the science field. If you have an airtight container at 70/70, and raise the temp 2 degrees, your hygrometer will read about 4 or 5 % higher. While you havent added or taken away any water, your relative humidity has changed. This is where that chart info ties in.

While there are different opinions out there, I have been of the opinion that the lowering in relative humidity of just a few % had no real effect on my cigars. Recently, I had a couple of cabinet customers call me stating that the top of their cabinets was about 4 or 5 % drier than the bottom of their cigar cabinets. It also seemed that the temp on the top was about 2 degrees higher than on the bottom. That 2 degree temp differance would result in the hygrometers reading about 4 or 5 % lower than the rest of the cabinet.
The real issue is if that change in relative humidity has an effect on your cigars. my 2 customers said yes. their proof was that beads and Boveda packs were drying out in the top of the cabinet.
This issue had been bugging me for the past few weeks because i want my customers cabinets to be "perfect". I called Tim for Humidipak today cause this subject was on my mind. I got some info from one of the science guys at Humidipak. He said that if the temp goes up a couple of degrees, your relative humidity will drop about 5%, and your cigars will get drier.
i have had customers agree with this, and i have had customers disagree with this. at this point, if my cigar lights and smokes decently, i am happy. you can drive yourself nuts with this crap...LOL. argue on.

 

[Greg]

The chart is correct in principal. The ratio of the mass of water vapor to the volume occupied by a mixture of water vapor and dry air; it is measured in in grams of water vapour per cubic meter of air. Conversion to relative humidity (RH) can only be made when the temperature is known. For instance 15 g/m3 at 17.5°C equals 100% RH, while at 25°C it equals 65% RH, and at 30°C it equals 50% RH.

What changes the equation, however, is that we have hydration (beads)devices in our humidors that will absorb or release water depending on the vapour pressure in the environment, i.e., they are designed to keep the humidor at a particular vapour pressure (which will change with temperature) that will equal a desired RH regardless of temperature.

So, at higher temps hydration devices will release water, and at lower temps they will absorb water, but they will always keep the environment (assuming the device is working properly) at the desired RH they were designed for.

 

[MichiganM]

The issue is pretty simple, put cigars in a box, put beads in the same box and keep that box between 55 and 75 degrees. That chart uses science to make false claims. The chart says right on it "RH required to equal 70%". That chart is basically saying this is what your hygro should read in order for it to be 70 percent at 70 degrees. It does use true science to get at figures, however it is totally false. If that chart was correct, and I followed that chart then I would have my hyrgo reading 83 percent right now. When it's cooler outside my RH goes down, not up....that is until I get more distilled water in there and it balances out again. So, fredneck I'm not sure about that last statement. I think my devices release more water when it's cooler out...I need to add more water when it's cooler. When it's warmer out, air is denser and holds more moisture. That is when I need to keep my beads drier because they absorb more water.

 

[RonC]

you are bringing the RH of your room into the equation. the chart only refers to a temperature change.

 

[Wasch_24]

I think a lot of people are confusing absolute humidity and relative humidity.

IMO the RH of the humidor may take a while to catch up to a temperature change but if you have meadia designed to maintian a specific RH then you will always have that specific RH, reagardless. Our hygrometers read RH and nothing else.

 

[MichiganM]

You're right about that Ron. My humi is reading 65 degrees with a 65 percent RH right now. According to that chart I'm 20 percent below where I wanna be if I want my cigars to be at the same level as 70/70. I don't know what else I can say about this....I think I've pretty much said all I can say. I'm shocked more BOTL's haven't backed me on this.

 

[Greg]

I got your back Jason.

 

[MichiganM]

I got your back Jason.

Thanks man, I appreciate it!

 

[Wasch_24]

This chart makes no sense. It is listing a specific RH required to attain 70% RH...that's rediculous...who ever created that chart is confusing AH and RH.

Your RH is a percentage of the maximum amount of moisture the air can hold at a given temperature, it is relative to the temperature...65% RH is 65% RH regardless of temperature...with absolutley no regard to the saturation level of the air (moisture content).

 

[Greg]

I was just saying that our hydration devices regulate the vapour pressure to keep our humidors at a specific RH regardless of temperature. Without the hydration devices the RH would fluctuate as the "chart" describes.

 

[Wasch_24]

You're right about that Ron. My humi is reading 65 degrees with a 65 percent RH right now. According to that chart I'm 20 percent below where I wanna be if I want my cigars to be at the same level as 70/70. I don't know what else I can say about this....I think I've pretty much said all I can say. I'm shocked more BOTL's haven't backed me on this.

Our cigars should be crumbling under our touch based on that...hogwash...I got your back Jason.

 

[MichiganM]

Thanks Todd!

Now I'm feelin the love.

 

[Wasch_24]

I was just saying that our hydration devices regulate the vapour pressure to keep our humidors at a specific RH regardless of temperature. Without the hydration devices the RH would fluctuate as the "chart" describes.

Not necessarily "regardless of temperature" more like in spite of temperature. The amount of water vapor required changes.

 

[Wasch_24]

All I know is that when my hygrometer reads 65/65 I really enjoy smoking my cigars...when it once read 68/72 for a while I had a hell of a time keeping my cigars lit...acoring to that chart my RH was still not high enough...yeah right.

 

[Greg]

Yes, that's what I meant, exactly.