How many do you carry?

[BkSmoke]

Tom,
As you know having a car stolen from you is the norm where we reside. We either have had it happen to us personally or know someone who has had it happen to them. I couldn't imagine coming outside and pointing a gun at the thief even if he was an adult career criminal. We have insurance for those reasons and to put yourself in a situation where you could possibly take a human life over a possession that can and will be replaced is completey heinous and unconscionable.
Dex

 

[caudio51]

Sorry Dex but I have to disagree. If I had a weapon and someone was stealing my car, you better believe he is getting a weapon pointed at him.

I have insurance, but he better have better insurance for even thinking of touching my car.

 

[BkSmoke]

That's nuts Tom,
If the criminal says FUCK YOU! Then I guess you are going to shoot and kill him. So then I gues its worth it that you saved your car which will be totally worthless in 10 years and you ended another human beings life? I know you're just typing with emotion, I would be angry also but the reality is no matter how angry we become it doesn't justify taking another human beings life.
Dex

 

[caudio51]

I think many people would be quite scarred if a weapon was pointed at them. Would I fire the weapon at them, no I probably wouldn't. That was my initial point. The weapon acting as a detterent (sp?)

Would I then secure the weapon and seek some other means of confronting them? Yes.

I just could not watch someone take all my stuff/my car without doing anything.

 

[BkSmoke]

You know what they say,"NEVER point a gun at someone unless you are willing to use it!". I'm not saying you stand there like a fool if someone is stealing your car and you are witnessing it happen in front of your eyes. I'm sure everyone would make an effort to stop the criminal by shouting, contacting the police etc... but Tom, to kill someone over a car that eventually will be totally worthless is crazy. If a criminal enters your home that is a different story, you are protecting your life and your families life and lethal force would indeed be justified, but a car Tom? How many cars have you had in your lifetime? Were any of them worth killing another human being over? It's just a car, you replace it like you replace clothes, jewelry etc. I don't know if you are religious at all but do you think when you are standing outside the pearly gates and God asks you, "Tom, why did you break my 6th commandment?". Well Almighty Father, this guy was trying to steal my car so I shot him, lol.
Dex

P.S. I remember as a 12 year old me and a group of my friends used to ride dirt bicycles, Mongoose, Diamond backs, Pk Rippers etc.. A few of my friends would take the silver caps off of cars rims and put them on their bikes rims because they were extremely hard to find. I just don't think it would be right for CVM to come out and blow our heads off for a stupid childish mistake.

 

[caudio51]

I think many people would be quite scarred if a weapon was pointed at them. Would I fire the weapon at them, no I probably wouldn't. That was my initial point. The weapon acting as a detterent (sp?)

See bold

 

[Black Dog]

As you know having a car stolen from you is the norm where we reside.

Dex, just some food for thought. Has it ever occurred to you that the reason this is the norm is that gun laws are already so strict in NY and NJ that criminals know they won't meet any armed resistance?

 

[BkSmoke]

You're probably right,
But those same criminals face the stiffest penalties in the country for carrying an illegal weapon. In New York City it is definitely better to have stricter gun control laws, I grew up here and been here all my life it's just my opinion so I'm not advocating it where you live.

 

[PetersCreek]

Thanks Caudio,
Mr.Creek I suggest you read before you make an assumption of what my beliefs are...

I suggest you do the same. I was addressing your grossly inaccurate generalization about gun owners...and only that. If I cannot draw conclusions about your beliefs from your own statements about your beliefs, then reading or re-reading them is of little use.

 

[cvm4]

Tom,
As you know having a car stolen from you is the norm where we reside. We either have had it happen to us personally or know someone who has had it happen to them. I couldn't imagine coming outside and pointing a gun at the thief even if he was an adult career criminal. We have insurance for those reasons and to put yourself in a situation where you could possibly take a human life over a possession that can and will be replaced is completey heinous and unconscionable.
Dex

Having a car stolen from where I live in NOT the norm. Hence why I wouldn't hesitate to pull a gun on kid/child/teenager to scare them off. All I can say is that people have been killed for a lot less than a car. It's their decision...

I don't know if you are religious at all but do you think when you are standing outside the pearly gates and God asks you, "Tom, why did you break my 6th commandment?". Well Almighty Father, this guy was trying to steal my car so I shot him, lol.
Dex

Actually what I believe is that Jesus died for our sins so that the 10 Commandments aren't needed anymore. That was the Old Testament way. We don't have to go through rituals and killing calfs and goats anymore in order to wipe away our sins. Our communication is through Jesus to God. The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

I just don't think it would be right for CVM to come out and blow our heads off for a stupid childish mistake.

Please keep sounding ignorant :lookaroun

 

[BkSmoke]

Having a car stolen from where I live in NOT the norm. Hence why I wouldn't hesitate to pull a gun on kid/child/teenager to scare them off. All I can say is that people have been killed for a lot less than a car. It's their decision...



Ok so let me get this straight, you just stated for the world to see that "I wouldn't hesitate to pull a gun on kid/child/teenager to scare them off." That is sick that you would pull a gun on a child, aren't you a man and strong enough to over power any child if you had to? I'm sorry CVM but there is NO EXCUSE for that way of thinking and you are proof that some people definitely shouldn't be allowed to carry or own a gun.


Mr. Creek do you agree with CVM's postition on pulling a gun on a child because as he put it, "it's their decision".

 

[indyrob]

Ok so let me get this straight, you just stated for the world to see that "I wouldn't hesitate to pull a gun on kid/child/teenager to scare them off." That is sick that you would pull a gun on a child, aren't you a man and strong enough to over power any child if you had to? I'm sorry CVM but there is NO EXCUSE for that way of thinking and you are proof that some people definitely shouldn't be allowed to carry or own a gun.

:disappoin:disappoin:disappoin:disappoin


As far as pulling a gun on someone, it's a liberals point of view to take it as a god awful thing. Back in my dad's day, he got chased off of farmers fields with shotgun blasts...all part of the thrill when he was getting free watermellons. That's not any different from Cliff's statement about using a gun as a deterrant.

I myself value what I have and I do grab my weapon if and when my car alarm goes off. If you take the stance that insurance will cover the costs of replacing your vehicle, thanks for being one of the vast number of people that help boost the cost of insurance premiums.

Guns are for protecting what is yours. If you don't like it...don't own one.

 

[caudio51]

Let's keep this civil. I'd hate to see a good debate go sour.

 

[cvm4]

Having a car stolen from where I live in NOT the norm. Hence why I wouldn't hesitate to pull a gun on kid/child/teenager to scare them off. All I can say is that people have been killed for a lot less than a car. It's their decision...



Ok so let me get this straight, you just stated for the world to see that "I wouldn't hesitate to pull a gun on kid/child/teenager to scare them off." That is sick that you would pull a gun on a child, aren't you a man and strong enough to over power any child if you had to? I'm sorry CVM but there is NO EXCUSE for that way of thinking and you are proof that some people definitely shouldn't be allowed to carry or own a gun.

No I wouldn't overpower a child that wasn't my own. Whatever you mean by that comment. A gun is a simple deterrant to use against anyone. It makes the person think twice before acting. I'd rather try to protect my car from theft instead of having my premiums go up because the car got stolen. Lets face it, we all know that they will go up, no matter if it was theft/accident/etc.

 

[cvm4]

Let's keep this civil. I'd hate to see a good debate go sour.

Sorry Tom, but IMO, the debate went sour when Dex decided to label and diss everyone's views that were different than his.

 

[BkSmoke]

CVM,
You really make no sense, you say you wouldn't overpower a child but you would point loaded gun at them? My point is that you don't need a gun to deter a child if you are an adult, your sheer size and strength would be enough. The fact that your willing to point a gun at a minor because you are afraid of your premiums going up is insane. A CAR IS A POSSESSION CVM, it can be replaced, a human life cannot!

P.S. I'm not dissing anyones views, I'm stating the obvious which is under no circumstances should 1 human being kill another over a car and an adult should never EVER point a loaded gun at a teenager or a child because they are protecting their car. I always thought that every American already knew this until now.

 

[PetersCreek]

CVM,
You really make no sense, you say you wouldn't overpower a child but you would point loaded gun at them? My point is that you don't need a gun to deter a child if you are an adult, your sheer size and strength would be enough.

You seem to be making the erroneous assumption that all minor "children" are smaller and/or weaker than all adults. Such is not the case. In any event, entering into a hand-to-hand confrontation isn't adviseable either...unless you're willing to risk a knife to the solar plexus, or something. Taking control of the situation from a distance is the preferred alternative.

The fact that your willing to point a gun at a minor because you are afraid of your premiums going up is insane. A CAR IS A POSSESSION CVM, it can be replaced, a human life cannot!

You're right. A human life cannot be replaced. The life taken by a drunken teen joyriding in a stolen vehicle cannot be replaced. The life taken in a drive-by shooting using a stolen car cannot be replaced. The life taken fleeing the police in wanton disregard for public safety cannot be replaced. If only we could count on it being a case of boys-will-be-boys. If only. The truth is, "children" are committing grown up crimes with grown up consequences...and it isn't just isolated to certain neighborhoods, as you suggested.

In spite of your baiting, I have so far refused to answer your "would you" questions. I still refuse. It would be irresponsible of me to make a blanket decision about a vaguely-worded hypothetical. I will say however, that I would use the appropriate means and amount of force necessary to protect life, limb, and property as I am entitled and/or permitted to do by right and by law.

P.S. I'm not dissing anyones views...

Then why resort to inflammatory language and prejudicial stereotypes?

 

[cvm4]

CVM,
You really make no sense, you say you wouldn't overpower a child but you would point loaded gun at them? My point is that you don't need a gun to deter a child if you are an adult, your sheer size and strength would be enough. The fact that your willing to point a gun at a minor because you are afraid of your premiums going up is insane. A CAR IS A POSSESSION CVM, it can be replaced, a human life cannot!

Why would I even want to hit a kid that isn't mine? This isn't the 60's where kids are just scared of you yelling at them. I'm pretty sure the kid would be more messed up with you hitting them and overpowering them than me pulling a gun out to control the situation. I work hard for my money and there's no way I'm letting someone get away with my hard earned stuff easily. I could care less if they're stealing my rims/stereo/car, etc. People choose their path in life and I don't go out looking for trouble, but I do look out for what belongs to me.

P.S. I'm not dissing anyones views, I'm stating the obvious which is under no circumstances should 1 human being kill another over a car and an adult should never EVER point a loaded gun at a teenager or a child because they are protecting their car. I always thought that every American already knew this until now.

Yes you are dissing everyone's views that aren't inline with your's. You're really just running around in circles here because you can't accept anyone else's viewpoint in a situation.

.....................

 

[BkSmoke]

I accept all logical viewpoints, the key word being logical. I am referring to a specific situation, where your car is at risk of being vandalized and or stolen by a child/minor. This is not a vaguely worded hypothetical as Mr. Creek would lead you to believe, it is a specific occurrence that happens frequently within most cities and states. I do not believe that pointing a loaded gun at child/minor is the proper response for this situation and I certainly do not agree with your reasoning that it is justified "because your insurance premiums would go up". Every single American has the right to own a firearm to protect life,limb and property but I do not consider a car that will be worthless in 10 years to be property that you should use lethal force to protect. A home where you and your family reside, yes ofcourse I agree that you should be able to use any amount of force to protect as well as your loved ones. If a child eggs your home on Halloween would you be justified in shooting him because you are protecting your property?No. If you catch a teenager trying to slash your tires, you pull your firearm and the teenager has a gun as well, you wind up shooting and killing the teenager over a tire that costs $250 dollars to replace, is that worth ending another human beings life over? These situations happen frequently and I have been the victim many times but at no point would I ever consider escalating the situation by using deadly force. My point is a car is a possession that can be replaced and should not be placed on the same level as another human beings life. I am sure that if you were to ask your local law enforcement, what would be the proper response if I see my car is being stolen by a criminal, they WOULD NOT advise you to come outside and point a loaded weapon at the individual would they? I believe this is a common sense approach and is not inflammatory in any way and I cannot understand why certain people would rather take the chance of having a minor incident turn into a terrible tragedy.

Peterscreek: "Taking control of the situation from a distance is the preferred alternative."

Ok Mr. Creek, you pull your gun, the criminal and his two accomplices who you didn't see pull their guns, now you are probably going to get murdered over a car, is it worth it?

 

[fuente]

Jeez I haven't posted to this thread since way back on page 5..

With regards to the pointing the gun a child comment, my feeling is that as soon as a person commits a crime, knowingly, the stakes go up. They should not be treated as a child any longer. Not sure pointing a gun at them is really going to solve anything or difuse the situation (it may escalate it) but at least you let them know you mean business.

However, in CA, if you did point a gun at someone, especially a minor, you better have an airtight, bulletproof reason, supported by eye witness testamony.

Anything short of that you're going to get chewed up in civil court. And you better hope that the gun doesn't 'accidently' go off, because child-killers are not looked upon favorably in prison. And if he also has a gun and pulls his as soon as you make a move for yours, well....

It seems that the possible negative outcomes outweigh the one possible positive outcome. But that's JMHO.