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Is This Cigar Over Hyped Or Is It Me?

Glassman

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They soak their tobacco in a solution, probably made mostly of tobacco oils.
Creates that voluminous smoke, long burning time and particular flavor note that carries across a lot of their lines.
Not the first or only to do it. But it's very distinct and noticeable with theirs.
Fine on an Undercrown, but I'm not paying big bucks for it...
 
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I’ve read that a number of manufacturers soak the tobacco in a solution called Bethune to enhance color and flavor. The “recipe” for that solution varies from one manufacturer to another but it’s not an uncommon practice.
 
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Ever wonder why there is an obscene amount of smoke that pours off the foot of a Liga Privada? Ever wonder why Ligas lose their flavor after aging for a year? Ever wonder why Jonathon Drew himself said that these cigars aren't intended to be aged, but smoked now? Ever wonder why the rollers have stained black hands? Ever wonder why there are certain parts of their factory that you aren't allowed to tour? These come from the company that is famous for making artificially flavored cigars. Coincidence?
Well shit, not sure if I’m glad I read this post or wish I hadn’t. I have a couple No.9s that I bought to let age a little, I’ve had them for 2 years next month. I’m going to be disappointed as hell if they’re not great sticks. At the time I bought them they were supposed to be a highly rated cigar. Now I’m kind of wishing I had smoked them 2 years ago.:banghead:

Jody
 
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Tried a #9 and wasn’t blown away either. Rather pick up some Fritas for cheap. From what I have read the original release we’re the ones to have.
 
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A previous post from Clint, on a similar thread related to dying. Sorry I suck at forum stuff

“The following is some GREAT information on wrappers provided by Steve Saka, President of Drew Estate cigars (Dirty Rat, Flying Pig, Liga Privada #9 &, T52, etc.)

"Maduro is a color designation but it is also a reference to specific
varieties of air cured black tobaccos which require longer fermentation
at a high bulk temp. For example, most habano seed capas will seldom be
allowed to exceed 110 degrees in a bulk, while some CT Broadleaf will
require temps over a 125 degrees to just get it going. So while any
cigar can be maduro in color, true maduro cigars are ones wrapped with
CT Broadleaf, Penn Broadleaf, San Andreas Negra, Costa Rican Morron,
Brazilian Matafina, Aripriaca, etc. So it is important that just
because a cigar may be maduro in color, it does not mean it is actually
a cigar with Maduro wrapper.

Each variety of maduro capa has it own specific traits, for example CT
Broadleaf is a very large, elephant shaped leaf with an inherent
natural sweetness and an absolute pain in the ass to work with on the
floor, while Aripriaca is long and thin, very elastic and extremely
spicy - these are the typicals not the not always.

When you work with maduro capas on bench, they must be incredibly wet
to handle. In fact, cigars rolled with maduro capa must be done on a
metal tabla vs. the traditional wood one you see in almost all cigar
rolling photos. The also require special wicking (drying) right after
their manufacture in order to prevent flat faces and streaking before
being place in the traditonal escapartes. Another unique trait of
maduro cigars is they almost always shrink at least one ring size, ie.
you use 52 ring mold, but after 60+ days of aging the will almost
always be 51 (and sometimes 50) in gauge. Some makers use larger molds,
ie. a 54 to make 52s, while others like ourselves just list the
original mold size on our frontmarks.

As for modifying the color, there is a variety of ways of achieving this, naturally and artificially.

1) Naturally - by leaving the tobacco in the pilon/bulk longer and/or
allowing to ferment at higher temperatures before each turn of the bulk.

2) Naturally - by bale resting the tobacco for 6 months plus after
fermentation - this doesn't typically change the hue as much as it
evens the color out to the darkerest shade on the leave achieved in the
bulk.

3) Naturally - utilizing water in which tobacco stems have been allowed
to steep for sometimes weeks as the water added to the bulk for the
purposes of fermentation. This is a very time honored, Cuban practice
which not only results in a darker leaf, but also a spicier one.

4) Steaming - also called cooking or steeping. This is not achieved in
some giant vat like some of the posters have written, doing so would
destroy the leaf. Rather it is done in a small vessel typically 10
gallons in size to which steam is applied for approximately 60 minutes.
This technique is not only done to achieve a very dark color, it also
mellows the tobacco out making it much mellower and milder to smoke.

5) Painiting - this is done by typically achieved by wiping down the
cigar gently after it has been constructed with some sort of mixture.
This can be done wither Naturally or Artificially - some are recipes
that are all natural just using the oils from the stems or picadura or
the are artificial ones that contain coloring agents. Again there is a
long history of the natural methodology, the artificial stuff really
only came into practice within the premium industry during the boom.

6) Maduro-Matic - this is a name use to describe technique #5 but done
with a machine in which the wrapper is passed through roller s. Almost
always the coloring used it artificial.

There are other techniques, but the above covers the bulk of the methods employed.

Obviously the natural techniques are a-ok, so I believe the primary
concern as a consumer is the artificial ones. The question is how can
you tell the difference?

First off it is done really well, it is very hard for someone who
doesn't really intimately know tobaccos and how to manufacture cigars
to tell the difference.

Just having some dark stains come off the wrapper alone is -NOT- a fair
indicator, because all natural maduro wrappers will cause staining to
the skin with moisture due to their inherent oiliness. If you ever have
to opportunity to visit a cigar factory, just look at the hands of the
workers, unlike the manicure perfect hands shown in the pictures in
magazines and books, every worker's hands are stained, even those
working with BW color shade leaf. And those rolling maduro, their hands
are sometime near black! Everyone just stages those photos, we pick out
a pretty rollera with nice hands, she washes up, we clean up the bench,
etc. etc. just to make a pretty picture. Fwiw, it tough to even take
good pictures of people rolling cigars because they move too fast and
their hands are in the way, so 99% of the photos everyone see are
posed...

Also if you ever happen to be in any cigar factory, just because you
see someone wiping down a cigar with a sponge do not assume they are
dying the wrapper. Almost all factories regularly wipe their finished
cigars gently with water (except those with blonde wrappers which are
wipe dry with a soft cloth) to remove dust and/or any debris. And that
little water bowl's content become quite brown after just wiping a
couple of dozen sticks.

So it is not uncommon that from a really oil maduro for you to be able
to get staining while you smoke or if you were to wipe the cigar along
a sheet of paper.

However, there typically is a difference in the staining, a certain hue
and depth to it. I really cannot explain it in text, but someone with
true tobacco experience can tell.

One of the best ways for the consumer to tell if the wrapper has been artificially colored is the following:

Is the wrapper too perfect? The color is always even everywhere with no
color difference in the veins or texture, is the wrapper always extra
extra dark, does it seem to stain far more than other cigars. Now if
you think it is painted, well this is pretty easy to check.. peel the
wrapper off, look at its underside, almost all capas will be a
SIGNIFICANTLY different hue on the underside. Now don't confuse slight
difference because the oil always migrate to the exterior, so the
exterior will always be shinier - keep this in mind.

When it comes to steamed leaf the color will appear the same on both
sides, however it will always be nearly jet black and the actually
grain of the leaf will be matte. Sometimes if it is really over steamed
you will even notice a slight greyness when you reflect light across
its surface. But again, don't confuse the grey of a cigar with plume
vs. one that is due to steaming.

I hope this provides everyone with some info to assist in making your
own judgements, but at the same time I ask that people exercise
judgement when they start claiming such and such a cigar is
artificially darkened. Please understand that this is our livelihood
and false accusations not only can be parroted, but very damaging and
unjustly so.

At Drew Estate we only employ the natural #1 and #2 techniques
described above..."

Hope this helps!




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I’ve read that a number of manufacturers soak the tobacco in a solution called Bethune to enhance color and flavor. The “recipe” for that solution varies from one manufacturer to another but it’s not an uncommon practice.
Holy shit! I was just random watching cigar videos on YouTube. Watch all of it if you want...but starting at 1:30 is what’s important. This guy is a farmer on the island.





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Dran

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Smoking my first t52 right now, and its not quite living up to my expectation... Maybe i paired it wrong (very peaty scotch) or maybe it's just not my cup o tea. But, without such a varience of taste preferences, there wouldn't be a need for the thousands of blends from humdreds of producers!

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nubchin

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Holy shit! I was just random watching cigar videos on YouTube. Watch all of it if you want...but starting at 1:30 is what’s important. This guy is a farmer on the island.

Betun or betunado is the way they the farmers use to mellow out and ferment tobacco for their own use or sale. The factories go with normal fermentation.
They put the leaves in bails with the betun( rum honey spices etc) and let them sit for weeks after curing.
I have had some of the farm rolls that were betunado. I needed 3-4 years to get them be even smokable, damn harsh strong, but got really good after that long period sitting. Some farmers do go with normal fermentation and they will be good after purchase depending on the blends they do.
 

nubchin

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Aside note. Alec Bradley, Reyes and a few were open about the use of betun in the past.
 
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