Temperature vs. RH

[Bruce T.]

In another thread the topic of how much we should be concerned about temperature changes came up. I thought it should be its own thread.

The standard opinion is to keep storage temperature stable and somewhere around 65 - 70 deg. I don't see the reason. If the temp is too high then there is the risk of beetle eggs hatching but assuming there are no eggs then that is not an issue. As temp changes, the RH changes BUT if the RH was good at a normal temp (lets say 65% at 65 F ) then as the temp goes up or down the RH will change but the actual amount of moisture in the cigars will not change. There is no moisture added or removed, it is just that the reading will change because the humidity reading is relative to temperature. If you don't open your humidor and exchange the air then the moisture in the cigars will remain the same.
For example, if the readings are good at 65 F and the temp goes up to 80 F during a hot couple of weeks, the RH reading will change. If the temp then goes back down to 65 F then the RH reading will return to the original good reading. The moisture content in your cigars never really changed, only the RH reading on your hygrometer.

So am I full of shit or what? This is my understanding of RH but correct me if I'm wrong.

Bruce.

 

[herfdog]

I believe you are right. Its all about actual humidity, regardless of what relative humidity we read.
here's an interesting chart

from that article http://vigilantinc.com/cigar-humidors/humidity-and-temperature.php

Now, if my wino is at 66F and my RH at 70, will I be drying my cigars? Maybe I'll add DW and 85% bovedas

 

[marshall9779]

I believe you are right. Its all about actual humidity, regardless of what relative humidity we read.
here's an interesting chart

from that article http://vigilantinc.com/cigar-humidors/humidity-and-temperature.php

Now, if my wino is at 66F and my RH at 70, will I be drying my cigars? Maybe I'll add DW and 85% bovedas

I thought RH was supposed to drop as temp goes down but that's not what that chart says.

 

[herfdog]

I thought RH was supposed to drop as temp goes down but that's not what that chart says.

Cold condense humidity, so your RH will drop when its colder. But you don't want that to happen. You want higher RH.

Anyway that's how I understand it. Searching online for temp/rh charts lead to similar info.

 

[atbat82]

I believe you are right. Its all about actual humidity, regardless of what relative humidity we read.
here's an interesting chart

from that article http://vigilantinc.com/cigar-humidors/humidity-and-temperature.php

Now, if my wino is at 66F and my RH at 70, will I be drying my cigars? Maybe I'll add DW and 85% bovedas

So is the above chart implying that at 60F, I would want my humi to read 96%? That seems off...

 

[herfdog]

So is the above chart implying that at 60F, I would want my humi to read 96%? That seems off...

that's if you like 70% when at 70F. Which most don't like anyway...

But, question for you. Would you keep your cigars in your normal everyday food refrigerator? Would you think they smoke great in your fridge?

 

[atbat82]

that's if you like 70% when at 70F. Which most don't like anyway...

But, question for you. Would you keep your cigars in your normal everyday food refrigerator? Would you think they smoke great in your fridge?

Hahaha! Believe it or not, I used to do that. I never had more than 2 or 3 sticks at any one time and someone told me to keep them in the fridge to "keep em fresh". Of course, as I know now, they smoke terrible!

And I know there's a difference between RH, which is what our Hygrometers measure, and actual humidity, which is what the cigars really "care" about. I imagine measuring AH would be too complex/expensive to be practical. And maybe most hygros are set up for 70F. I just know that if I opened my cooler and saw a reading of 96%, I'd be VERY unhappy...

 

[herfdog]

Hahaha! Believe it or not, I used to do that. I never had more than 2 or 3 sticks at any one time and someone told me to keep them in the fridge to "keep em fresh". Of course, as I know now, they smoke terrible!

And I know there's a difference between RH, which is what our Hygrometers measure, and actual humidity, which is what the cigars really "care" about. I imagine measuring AH would be too complex/expensive to be practical. And maybe most hygros are set up for 70F. I just know that if I opened my cooler and saw a reading of 96%, I'd be VERY unhappy...

That chart tells me that if I keep my wino at 66F, I need to crank up to 83%rh...

 

[pbibby]

This was sent to me by someone that has WAY more knowledge and experience than I could ever hope to have on the subject. It is talking about % water content of cigars (left axis). And how the temperature affects that along with RH at the same time. I don't claim to understand it all, but basically you are trying to end up in the green box.

Again, I cannot even explain it, but basically he keeps his cigars at 70F and 60% RH which equates to around 11% water content in the cigars. There are a multiple ways of getting around that number. For instance, I keep my cigars around 67F so at approx 62% RH at that temp, I have the same water content %.

Long story short, most of what everyone tells you is their own way of achieving and end result (which we assume for all of us is well performing, good tasting cigars). Whatever works best for you is not the end all. It is for you, but not necessarily for everyone else. If keeping cigars in the fridge works for you, do it. If microwaving them before smoking them makes them taste better to you, then do it.

just my .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002

-Paul

 

[mdwest]

where the hell is Ara when you need him??????

 

[pbibby]

@sofc

Here you go @mdwest . ha!

 

[sofc]

where the hell is Ara when you need him??????

Pretty sure I hate you right about now.

 

[sofc]

@sofc

Here you go @mdwest . ha!

I don't usually get notifications with the @ but this time it worked

 

[ChefBoyRG54]

I don't usually get notifications with the @ but this time it worked

You should turn them on so we can ring the Ara humidification bell whenever, wherever

 

[erjaq]

Every single word of the OP's post is true. The same information is captured in pbibby's .pdf. A fixed amount of moisture will give a different RH at different temps. The only reason humidity is expressed as a percentage is that, for a given temp, air can only hold a fixed amount of moisture (this is what 100% RH means). Beyond that you have precipitation. Cold air can hold less moisture than warm air, too -- 65% RH at 65 degrees is drier than 65% RH at 70 degrees.

 

[sofc]

You should turn them on so we can ring the Ara humidification bell whenever, wherever

That will cost you.

I get some of them but not all.

 

[herfdog]

That will cost you.

I get some of them but not all.

When you say that will cost him... you mean he is going to have to send you cigars?

 

[ChefBoyRG54]

That will cost you.

I get some of them but not all.

Now we're making progress. How much pesos?

 

[sofc]

When you say that will cost him... you mean he is going to have to send you cigars?

No.

 

[Zmilin]

As I see this whole debate/discussion...
Sure, there is a sweet spot per the numbers and diagrams (70/70 or 65/65 for example). The reality is that when you start to get extreme on this the numbers don't make sense anymore (61/96).
There has been research done by Havana Controls (makers of the Luxidor) where they found the ideal moisture content of a cigar is 13% BUT to get it to 13% it requires the cabinet rh to fluctuate. They are of course selling a product but they have put a ton of research into what it takes to get there. Check this out:

That will mess with head until you get to the price point... Makes a bucket of beads or some Boveda packs seem much more affordable

Bottom line... reality is where we all operate and we have all seen that 60-70% humidity (personal preference) provided by whatever mean we chose to use (kitty liter, bored, HF beads, etc...) gets us there and works well even when faced with some temp changes. In extreme situations it requires more maintenance on our part but its proven as doable.