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In two different orders I've got two different binders (seems like that's how it is in this biz). I'll be interested to see what the luck of the draw brings you.
Your basic formula will use .5 leaves ligero. It's potent. A basic corona will be what I call 1155. 1 volado(seco), 1.5 seco(viso), .5 ligero. Your basic robusto or equivalent will be 1/2/.5. This has worked for me, with Jorge leaf and the CT wrapper, to produce high-end pro-quality sticks, and is in accordance with long-time Cuban formulas.
This is awesome info and much appreciated. How burny is the ligero? Sometimes I enjoy a real ass kicker but want to make sure the stick will burn. Have you had a chance to see if there was a drastic burn/flavor difference between the binders you have gotten?
 
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Here's a idea for people to add on to: flavor/aroma descriptions of different tobaccos in a running list.
Maybe it'll help people come up with blends or perfect a blend they've been working on.

What gave me the idea for this topic/list is some of the tobacco wholeleaf sells have no flavor description at all..

I pulled these descriptions off their site.

Nicaragua habano seco: this cigar filler has an earthy, woody flavor with notes of chocolate and pepper

Paraguay Flojo Africa Viso: The flavor is nutty, chocolate and coffee with notes of cinnamon. The smoke is thick, medium bodied, and smooth. This is a flavorful tobacco with a pleasant aroma with hints of cherry and currents.

Manta Fina (Brazil) : Mata Fina is very smooth and creamy, sweet, aromatic, medium-bodied smoke. The foundation flavor is chocolatey and woody, the aroma is rich and syrupy with mild spice notes.

Piloto Cubano Viso (Dominican Republic) Flavor profiles are, slight nutmeg and cinnamon, smooth and nutty with hints of earth and slight vanilla notes.

Honduras Habano: This tobacco has notes of nutmeg and cinnamon and very little pepper. This tobacco truly possesses qualities similar to those of leaf from the Island Nation south of Miami.

Criollo 98 wrapper (Nicaragua): During the burn, notes are a mocha like sweetness with some wood and a touch of licorice on the finish.

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Would the 1/2/5 formula work on 48 rg? Also, can you flip it to 2/1/5 for a milder smoke.
Yes. For sure it'd work with 48: you'd just have to adjust how you play with the tips and tails to fill out your length.

And there is literature about both these blends, in terms of one's preferences for degrees of "softness." But of course you'll have to experiment with the tobacco in front of you to see which is best for you. The way "volado" and seco(viso) play together, going 2 volado(seco) might or might not actually be milder, to your taste. Myself, I say I prefer a mild blend, but I find that with the tobacco in front of me, I prefer the 1.5 seco(viso).
 
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This is awesome info and much appreciated. How burny is the ligero? Sometimes I enjoy a real ass kicker but want to make sure the stick will burn. Have you had a chance to see if there was a drastic burn/flavor difference between the binders you have gotten?
Hey, no I haven't yet burned the new batch of different binder. I've got bunches ready and wrappers in the bags and will hopefully roll tomorrow and be ready to test that in 7-8 days. With the first batch, all my blends are burning flawlessly with minimum one week dry box in ~50 humidity. I've never had such consistent burners, across all blends from 3 volados to 3 ligeros. This is with the CT. I only tried a few of the habanos a few weeks ago when they had about one week on them and those sticks weren't burning well at the wrapper level. So I've put my remaining habanos away for a couple months of conditioning to see if the habano will take. But the fillers are all extremely burny in every combo. This is using the tightish "barberpole" entubado.
 
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Hey, no I haven't yet burned the new batch of different binder. I've got bunches ready and wrappers in the bags and will hopefully roll tomorrow and be ready to test that in 7-8 days. With the first batch, all my blends are burning flawlessly with minimum one week dry box in ~50 humidity. I've never had such consistent burners, across all blends from 3 volados to 3 ligeros. This is with the CT. I only tried a few of the habanos a few weeks ago when they had about one week on them and those sticks weren't burning well at the wrapper level. So I've put my remaining habanos away for a couple months of conditioning to see if the habano will take. But the fillers are all extremely burny in every combo. This is using the tightish "barberpole" entubado.
How are the veins on the Habano wrapper and how would you compare that to the Habano from LO? I am running low on wrapper and trying to decide if the extra expense of ordering from Jorge is worth it.
 
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How are the veins on the Habano wrapper and how would you compare that to the Habano from LO? I am running low on wrapper and trying to decide if the extra expense of ordering from Jorge is worth it.
The Jorge habano has thicker veins than the LO. It is a full-on sungrown leaf. The LO Habano shade is an overall very fine-structured leaf, in the shade-grown fashion. The Jorge is a more heavy-duty leaf. Thicker body, much deeper heavier aroma and very intense strength and flavor on a one-week stick, bigger veins. Here are some of my sticks with the Jorge Habano:
http://blisscigar.tumblr.com/image/140095146601
I think you should get the LO Habano shade ligero that you love until I've discovered whether the Jorge stuff burns in a couple months. I'm not saying I'm the only dude who has this stuff or will give you an opinion on that, I'm just saying I can't speak for anyone but myself, empirically, on that question. As someone who pays more attention to the drug affect of cigars than most cigar reviewers, I can tell you that I think the LO Habano shade is super mild pharmacologically, and the Jorge Habano is super intense. In one post I described the sensation as being nearly psychedelic; but that was with one week of rest on something that probably needs at least four months (typical minimum rest for a full-bodied stick). Jorge says he uses the Habano for his heavy-bodied rolls. He ain't lyin.
 
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The jorge habano has thicker veins than the LO. The LO Habano shade is an overall very fine-structured leaf. The Jorge is a more heavy-duty leaf. Thicker body, much deeper heavier aroma and very intense strength and flavor on a one-week stick, bigger veins. Here are some of my sticks with the jorge habano:
http://blisscigar.tumblr.com/image/140095146601
I think you should get the LO Habano shade ligero that you love until I've discovered whether the Jorge stuff burns in a couple months. I'm not saying I'm the only dude who has this stuff or will give you an opinion on that, I'm just saying I can't speak for anyone but myself, empirically, on that question. As someone who pays more attention to the drug affect of cigars than most cigar reviewers, I can tell you that I think the LO Habano shade is super mild pharmacologically, and the Jorge Habano is super intense. In one post I described the sensation as being nearly psychedelic; but that was with one week of rest on something that probably needs at least four months (typical minimum rest for a full-bodied stick). Jorge says he uses the Habano for his heavy-bodied rolls. He ain't lyin.
Exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I can see a place at my rolling table for both but will hold off on biting the bullet on a lb until I have some more funds free up unless anyone is interested in splitting an order. I wasn't expecting his $20+ shipping/handling charge but won't complain since the prices of the leaf is very fair for the quality imo from what I am hearing.
 
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Exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I can see a place at my rolling table for both but will hold off on biting the bullet on a lb until I have some more funds free up unless anyone is interested in splitting an order. I wasn't expecting his $20+ shipping/handling charge but won't complain since the prices of the leaf is very fair for the quality imo from what I am hearing.
20+ for shipping. Try 48.00 on for size. Makes my sphincter pucker every time I have to order something.:jawdrop: lol.
 
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In two different orders I've got two different binders (seems like that's how it is in this biz). I'll be interested to see what the luck of the draw brings you.
Your basic formula will use .5 leaves ligero. It's potent. A basic corona will be what I call 1155. 1 volado(seco), 1.5 seco(viso), .5 ligero. Your basic robusto or equivalent will be 1/2/.5. This has worked for me, with Jorge leaf and the CT wrapper, to produce high-end pro-quality sticks, and is in accordance with long-time Cuban formulas.
Hey, no I haven't yet burned the new batch of different binder. I've got bunches ready and wrappers in the bags and will hopefully roll tomorrow and be ready to test that in 7-8 days. With the first batch, all my blends are burning flawlessly with minimum one week dry box in ~50 humidity. I've never had such consistent burners, across all blends from 3 volados to 3 ligeros. This is with the CT. I only tried a few of the habanos a few weeks ago when they had about one week on them and those sticks weren't burning well at the wrapper level. So I've put my remaining habanos away for a couple months of conditioning to see if the habano will take. But the fillers are all extremely burny in every combo. This is using the tightish "barberpole" entubado.
True. The filler burns marvelously. I rolled a quickiefecto out of Jorge's sotweed Friday night and sparked it midday yesterday. One leaf each of seco, ligero, and viso. Each of these bags contains leaves thin and large enough to be wrappers, had they not been rejected for little holes. I can't say I tested them with an ember, but I feel confident any one of the three would burn a la vela. I was looking to test a bunch with one leaf each which would fit the mold I use for Uppowoc Perfectos. I am used to rolling seco with triple this thickness and stubborn crinkles. This, by contrast, is flat and thin. I found I could make the right sized fistful by using the seco as binder over the other two entubado. Adding the inside cut out of wrapper leaf as a separate binder made too fat a bunch. I wrapped with the outer edge of Jorge's habano. Being just a quickie, the wrapper was not stuck down on a wet board to get the tightest wrap, or anything like that. Nevertheless, I found it easy to work with, and I found that with less than a day of rest it shrank down tight enough on the bunch to make presentable seams. I feel confident that I took a picture; but I can't find the bugger anywhere. Here, instead, is a pic of a quickie parejo which I rolled with the stuff last week.


You see the lumps up near the head of it? That's the inner part of the wrapper leaf cut out for binder. The wrapper has such monster veins that it lumped right thru the wrapper. By using the seco as binder instead, and wasting the inner wrapper, I was able to avoid those unsightly lumps. I burnt this while in the garage fooling around with projects. I could lay it on the work bench, go out to the wood pile and fill a couple totes with firewood and bring them in and when I picked up the cigar the cherry was fully alive and well. Take a puff, go fool with a motorcycle tool kit, come back, perfect burn. This was on a drizzly day to boot. The habano wrapper is the only bit that burnt unevenly. You're prolly right on that it may need a couple months' seasoning before that bit straightens up and burns right.

False. This lligero is not potent. Nor am I a fan of powerful cigars. Using a full leaf ligero, along with a full leaf of each other, I'd class the stick right off the table as savory and mild. I'd classify the nicotine content as middling.

I hesitate to give a flavor profile, because I was eating Cheetos and salami at the time, and drinking Coors. But I'd say nutty, softly aromatic, bite-less, cafe con leche. I don't know the country; but I'm guessing Dominican. It has that roundness to it -- the ability to be full bodied yet mild at the same time. It would play well indoors. I think with some age this would make an excellent every day summer blend. The only down side is that the unlit wrapper is comparatively flavorless on the tongue, and feels like paper. I am used to Whole Leaf Tobacco's Habano 2000, which smells and tastes heartier.

I will probably forge ahead to make a batch of Jorge 111s, box them, and dig in this coming summer.

The only negative I have is that the wrapper, at $65 a pound, is inferior to WLT H2k which I got at $42 (tho the price is up to $49 now). It is relatively flavorless and the Goliath veins prevent you using the inner cut-out as a binder. I dislike wasting leaf. Plus, I think Don gives you more to a bag. Plus it burns more evenly. Once I get a box filled with Jorge 111s, I may wrap a second box wrapped with WLT's H2k. Prolly be even better.
 
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Did a quick test with a chunk of fermented broadleaf wrapper.Didnt even bother to trim the rough edge or the foot. This wrapper stretches like a latex condom.
Did you use double fermented in the filler as well?
If it's a used condom you probably won't need any glue for the cap. :wtf:
Can't wait to hear how this thing tastes. Looks great. Make sure it's dry!!
 

Jan Bynens

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Nice job Marc !!
Found some nice laurel wood here and I'm also building a rolling station.
Also bought a small AC/air dryer for my office. It is to humid here, even after 15 min the leaves become too wet.
Also it helps for sweating hands. Temp = 90+; rh = 80-95
 
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