driver
Attitude + Effort = Results
Probably right. Thought about buying his lot and pimping it out but that's alot of work
Caldwell and Lost & Found cigars. Relabeling old cigars?
- Thread starter Nickerson
- Start date
Good call on Viaje. Viaje buys tobacco's from other companies and they blend/roll their own cigars. This is why everything they produce is limited edition. They can be pricey but they got some great cigars. Haven't had a Viaje that disappointed me.
Buying tobaccos from other companies and making your own cigars I don't have a problem with at all. Not everyone can afford to have their own plantation. I just think relabeling old cigars and marking up price is rather deceitful and dishonest. Just how I never liked companies who say "these cigar is normally $30 each but right now are $2.99!" (Gurkha)
IMO, this is not fair to say... you may not personally think any cigar is worth over ten dollars to you and in that judgement you would be correct as only -you- can make it.
However, they are many over ten dollar cigars that could not exist due to their actual cost to produce and while they may earn a higher dollar per stick contribution they are often actually at a lower profit margin point than other products they produce that are sub-$8...
Are consumers being gouge on some cigars? Absolutely, but they are not being gouged on all cigars. If a manufacturer wants to produce a top shelf stick of solely top grade materials with the best labor and quality control particularly in the heavy leaf ligas that have become so popular over the last decade even $10 at the retail register is too thin given retailer mark-ups.
As someone who actually knows -exactly- what it costs to grow, procure, work and sort top grade materials and then manufacture an ultra-premium cigar and all that is involved, a price point in the $11-$14 range is the low end of the range today. Can you make a solid cigar for less, yes. Can you find a cigar you personally like better than one in this high price point, a resounding yes again. But that doesn't change the reality of what it costs to produce a Padron Anniversary, an Opus X, a Liga Privada, etc... Not everyone is robbing consumers.
What I see as a bigger issue is there is a plethora of new cigars, many by relatively new companies, most of whose "master whatevers" couldn't identify even the most basic of leaf varieties much less grade out a pilon to save their lives are charging consumers this high price point for what should be $6-$7 sticks at best. Yet they are lauded as great cigar makers by many media sources and in turn, consumers.
Consumers need to consider their purchases carefully and choose wisely to support those companies, people and products they have faith in. Demand and expect consistency, make them earn your dollars just as you had to earn them. Those who are legit have and always will do so.
But please do not lump everyone together.
BR,
STS
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ps: It would be inappropriate for me to speak ill of anyone or any new company in particular, I have been and may be again be their competitor. All I can rightly do is recommend cigars that I know I would willingly buy... if I was looking for the best value, I would highly recommend many of the cigars currently be crafted by AJ Fernandez, Nick Perdomo and Oliva. If I was interested in purchasing "boutique" (hate the word) cigars I would recommend trying those being made by La Zona, RomaCraft, or the ones being produced under the direction of Crowned Heads. Obviously this is -not- a complete list, but just a few I offer as an example, the point is I personally only buy or recommend cigars from makers or importers in whom I have respect for.
As for Caldwell and his cigars, I honestly have no opinion as of yet, I have never smoked one, much less enough to form a fairminded opinion. I met him just once at a recent cigar dinner where we happen sit across from each other and we didn't engage in any sort of in depth tobacco or cigar conversations. This is my fault as I spent almost the entire night with my good friend Ernesto Perez-Carillo talking shop. Now there is a man who knows tobacco and cigars and I always go out of my way to try his new cigars.
As for Caldwell and his cigars, I honestly have no opinion as of yet, I have never smoked one, much less enough to form a fairminded opinion. I met him just once at a recent cigar dinner where we happen sit across from each other and we didn't engage in any sort of in depth tobacco or cigar conversations. This is my fault as I spent almost the entire night with my good friend Ernesto Perez-Carillo talking shop. Now there is a man who knows tobacco and cigars and I always go out of my way to try his new cigars.
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Caldwell was talking about the yellow cake when he mentioned giving. Away the cigars at events
Always love reading your posts @ssaka I always learn something.
TraderCigarCo.
Alex
Dropping the knowledge bombs. Love it.
luckysaturn13
Smoke it if ya got it!
Im not a high roller on cigar spending I normally spend 2-8 a stick and on rare occasion 9-15. Ive never spent 45 for a cigar but if I did... it would be some sort of l.p. , Cohiba, or maybe some type of opus. Id also have to have pretty good intitution that I would enjoy it. But in the cigar world to each their own! Thats what's great about cigars so many different varietys and then you mix in personal tasting preferences just makes for something for everyone. You won't see me buying a girls for 500$ but ill sure as heck smoke a blue steel or a beauty for 5$
THEMISCHMAN
SGT Hulka
Agreed.
THEMISCHMAN
SGT Hulka
It goes without saying that we all enjoy your insight. Steve, you say you don't like (hate) the term "boutique" when referring to a cigar, what term would you use to describe the cigars that most of us call "boutique"?
Boutique = trendy, maybe?
Funny you should ask this as I have actually been trying to come up with a better word or phrase for a awhile... The problem with "boutique" is that it is used to mean so many things... sometimes a limited edition, sometimes a continually produced, but in limited quantities, sometimes to identify as it being from a smaller lesser known brand owner or factory, sometimes to identify it as an ultra or super premium cigar, or some a combination of any or all the above.
First off, all cigars are limited by the availability of the needed tobaccos, some are limited to a million a year, others to just a few thousand, but ALL are limited - so what is the volume cut off?
In a small factory that produces say 5,000 cigars a day, wouldn't everything be boutique even if it is sub-par? But then again, take a big factory that makes 100K a day, yet they make a particular liga in quantities of just a few hundred or a thousand a day, shouldn't they get to use the moniker of "boutique" for that cigar?
In general, I have WAY WAY more faith in a big factory that does a small batch production as they have far more resources and talent typically than any small factory, so in theory they would actually be typically better "boutique" makers, yet how can anyone consider Altadis or General as boutique?
It is a very confusing phrase to most consumers and me too, yet we all use it - I am just as guilty.
I was recently reading an interview regarding bourbon and the distiller was discussing this very topic and his solution was to start calling it "thoughtfully crafted"... I don't know that this is right either. I mean I know that everything a factory does is thoughtful... I know the Olivas put a lot of effort and thought into their Series V, yet it is pretty good size production.
I do have a term I personally like that encapsulates the intent of the phrase "boutique" but in a more succinct and clearly definable way or at least in what I might do in the future to describe any cigar I might create, regretfully I am unable to share it until my non-compete ends. Legal crap.... <sigh>
So basically, I don't have a better word and that is why I use it too...
Steve
Much like how Snoop Dogg Paid tha Cost to be da Bo$$, sometimes you must shell out those additional dollars to get a truly quality product. Damn near anything rolled at El Titan de Bronze is over $10 but you're getting a top notch made in a America product. Smoke a La Colmena Unico or an El Oso Mama and tell me that's a waste of money.
Mr.Draned
The Grey Rooster
Based on that comment, is he the Banksy, Mr. Brainwash, Warhol of the cigar industry?
(not trying to start a fight or make any Caldwell fans angry!)
I really never understood the "well-aged" one... honestly, some tobacco is MUCH BETTER when it is younger... if it cured and fermented properly it is ready to use. When making a blend we are doing so with the flavor and aromas the tobaccos are delivering now, not on what they -may- taste like 5 years down the road.
Sure do some tobaccos age better than others, absolutely. But there is a point where ALL tobaccos begin to lose too much of their essential oils and in turn, become less and less flavorful.
I am not saying that all "aged" cigars are bad or that they are not sometimes better, but any reputable premium cigar maker is going to use tobaccos that were "aged" properly in their blends.
And yes, sometimes a legit maker will set aside select tobaccos with the intent of using the tobacco later in a special future project, but this is few and far between. But most of the cigars containing tobaccos that were aged an additional 3 or more years after fermentation is because the leaf wasn't palatable to use in the first place and they are hoping time will help to knock the edge off it so they can stuff it in some blend somewhere and cash recover. Whenever I see someone claiming they are using 5+ year old leaf my initial reaction is they are either spinning tales of grandeur or they are using something that wasn't good enough to be used in the first place.
As a general rule of thumb, most cigar makers do not like to have on hand leaf that they are not intending to utilize within the next two years because of this loss of flavor and aroma issue.
BR,
STS
ps: I really gotta stop posting, all I do is end up pissing off others in the biz... <sigh>
Sure do some tobaccos age better than others, absolutely. But there is a point where ALL tobaccos begin to lose too much of their essential oils and in turn, become less and less flavorful.
I am not saying that all "aged" cigars are bad or that they are not sometimes better, but any reputable premium cigar maker is going to use tobaccos that were "aged" properly in their blends.
And yes, sometimes a legit maker will set aside select tobaccos with the intent of using the tobacco later in a special future project, but this is few and far between. But most of the cigars containing tobaccos that were aged an additional 3 or more years after fermentation is because the leaf wasn't palatable to use in the first place and they are hoping time will help to knock the edge off it so they can stuff it in some blend somewhere and cash recover. Whenever I see someone claiming they are using 5+ year old leaf my initial reaction is they are either spinning tales of grandeur or they are using something that wasn't good enough to be used in the first place.
As a general rule of thumb, most cigar makers do not like to have on hand leaf that they are not intending to utilize within the next two years because of this loss of flavor and aroma issue.
BR,
STS
ps: I really gotta stop posting, all I do is end up pissing off others in the biz... <sigh>