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Caldwell and Lost & Found cigars. Relabeling old cigars?

HIM*

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I always assumed it was the same as when "craft" is attached to a brewer. Just meaning a company other than one of those huge international conglomerates that mass produce a product with an emphasis more on the bottom line over quality.
What I am more interested in is how you and your peers would rather be called. Much like I would ask a foreiger the correct pronunciation of their name. I don't want to have you feel slighted, and help put out a term you would prefer instead.
I always assumed "craft" beer was defined as a well-aged beer produced in limited quantity by a boutique company run by someone with passion for the industry.


...what?
Sort of off topic but FWIW the Brewers Association identifies craft breweries as having an annual production of 6 million barrels per year or less, less than 25% of the business is owned or controlled by an alcoholic beverage industry member that is not itself a craft brewer, a majority of its total beverage alcohol volume in beers whose flavor derives from traditional or innovative brewing ingredients and their fermentation. Flavored malt beverages (FMBs) are not considered beers.
The same standard applies for microbreweries but the production has to be 15,000 barrels or less per year. Nano breweries are classified by producing beer on a brewing system thats 4 barrels or smaller.
 
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I just watched this myself and I'm left completely unimpressed. Never had any of Caldwell's stuff and I can't say I'm planning to.
I wouldn't write off everything he does as he does make cigars I would recommend. Just not as impressed with the lost and found brand.
 
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I wouldn't write off everything he does as he does make cigars I would recommend. Just not as impressed with the lost and found brand.
I guess the way I feel is that the man behind the brand says a lot about the brand. He just sounds...Ehh...I don't want to be a jerk. The whole thing about his "Tobacco Gangster" who's been growing "Luxury tobacco" but doesn't actually grow it...Just watch the video. It doesn't give me the impression he knows a lot about tobacco.
 
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I did not watch the video so my statement is a general one: Many of the brand owners today know very little about cigar making, much less tobacco.

STS
 
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I guess the way I feel is that the man behind the brand says a lot about the brand. He just sounds...Ehh...I don't want to be a jerk. The whole thing about his "Tobacco Gangster" who's been growing "Luxury tobacco" but doesn't actually grow it...Just watch the video. It doesn't give me the impression he knows a lot about tobacco.
Ok he does kind of come off as a bit DBish with the "tobacco gangster" and the chest hair, but he also had some interesting things to say about customer service and attention to detail. I'm not trying to convince you to try his product, but I personally wouldn't rule his entire line out because of issues with another brand he is associated with.
In the same way that I wouldn't expect the president of Ford Motor Company to know how to build a car, I don't expect every president of a cigar company to be able to perform every aspect of cigar blending/production. He is a business owner and his talents lie with marketing and customer service. The fact that he is surrounding himself with people that obviously know a thing or two about the production of a cigar is what makes a good product.
That being said, this is just my opinion and we all know the saying about those...
 

sofc

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I do not care if I like the cigar brand owner/roller/blender/retailer/rep. I do not care if they know anything about anything. I care if I like the cigar. Having said that, if someone has no integrity, it might influence me to not give them my money.
 
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I do not care if I like the cigar brand owner/roller/blender/retailer/rep. I do not care if they know anything about anything. I care if I like the cigar. Having said that, if someone has no integrity, it might influence me to not give them my money.
The only thing that I can add to this is that you have to be able to smoke the cigar in order to know if you like it. Unfortunately, I was unable to do so with both the Eastern Standards and LLTK's that purchased from Cigar Federation. The construction issues were beyond anything that I have seen and it makes me think that whoever produces Caldwell's stuff does not fully respect him--there's no excuse for these cigars being constructed the way that they are. After watching the interview, I can sort of see how someone might not take him seriously or if it is between Caldwell and another company, the other company is going to get the goods and Caldwell is going to get the "special" tobacco that's left over.

At the same time, I need to be fair to Robert and his company. After a handful of attempts to contact him and not a single reply--documented on here, (Cigar Federation ended up making it right), a Caldwell rep finally got back to me--Robert was probably in China spending a week so that he could say that he walked away understanding the Chinese point of view. Yes, it took sending them a brand new tirade, but they did get back to me--customer service is clearly still hit and miss.

I asked the rep if they were aware that one of the rollers of the LLTK my style is Jalapeno were making a mockery of their sticks--I had attempted to smoke another one and was not able to make 1/4 of the way through. I ended up taking apart the cigar to see what is causing these sticks to have so many issues--to be fair, when is the last time any of you has seen a pic posted of a Caldwell product that had close to a straight burn? The clerk asked if they could make it right and I told them that Cigar Federation already had. They insisted that they send some Caldwell stuff, which I thought was a nice gesture. Part of me half expects to not see anything arrive in the mail and that's okay. Whatever they send, I am forwarding half to poster, Bubb, because I am worried that my leftover Caldwell stuff is not any good and of course, he insisted on sending me some sticks--Talk about feeling guilty.

Hoping that the new product actually arrives and it helps to erase easily the worst cigar experience that I have had to date. Hoping for Bubb's sake too!
 

StogieNinja

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IMHO, they know what they're doing when it comes to blending, as I've very much enjoyed Caldwell's core line offerings, but I've heard numerous reports about the construction, which strikes me as odd as the factory where they're made is run by the guys who used to be key at Davidoff, and is the same factory that produces Rodrigo cigars, which I haven't read any complaints about.

I may be the only guy who hasn't had significant construction issues with Caldwell, but all of mine have smoked very well. Then again, most of mine have been resting for several months by the time I smoke them.
 

Mr. McSquirelly

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After listening to the video for a half hour, I wonder how one goes about running a fledgling, growing company and, at the same time, flying around the world and partying all the time. No offense to Mr. Caldwell, but he gives me the impression of being a quick-buck-artist. I've never tried his cigars, so I won't comment there. I really do appreciate the comments of the two industry guys above, Mr. Saka and Mr. Huber. As in any business, some guys do it for the money, and some guys do it for the joy of making a good product, for the love of the craft itself. It's not a moral or ethical thing at all. There's nothing wrong with doing something for the money only. We live in a free-market, capitalist society. I just admire people who do something for the love of the craft itself more than those who do it for the love of the money. Some find money rewarding, some find good craftsmanship rewarding; the product itself is just the side-effect.

At the end of the day, quality is the standard; and quality is the direct effect of good craftsmanship in this industry. Take Eduardo Fernandez and Arsenio Ramos for example. I think they make a damn fine cigar that no one knows about. It's cheap too. You can get a box of ten for like $45. Caldwell's latest cigar, 'The Last Tsar', is $180 for a box of ten. So I'm faced with a choice. Buy a cigar from a master blender and a master grower, who both have long histories in the tobacco industry going all the way back to pre-revolutionary Cuba, for $4.50; or I can buy a cigar from some hotshot marketing whiz, whose only interest is taking my money and partying in Paris for the weekend. For me, the choice is an easy one, and I save $140 in the process. Eduardo Fernandez makes enough money farming tobacco, so his interest in making a cigar has to be rooted in quality. Arsenio Ramos is a master blender/roller from Havana who has been rolling cigars for 60+ years, so his only interest is the craftsmanship itself. So, yeah, it's $4.50 cigar, but if marketed the same way Caldwell markets his cigar, probably an $18 cigar.

But I'm not on the business side of the industry, so I don't know how all that works. But from a consumer's perspective, it's simple. I'm looking for highest quality at lowest price. Would I have paid $300+ for Las Calaveras EL 2015 this year? Definitely. But I got a box at Famous for $200. Considering the quality of the cigar, as a consumer, that's a steal. Not only that, but as a consumer I'm now encouraged to buy more products from this particular company because of the quality of the craftsmanship. It appears that Mr. Huber is more interested in selling me a top-quality product than in simply taking my money. Same goes for My Father Cigars, Don Giolito and a few others.

Finally, it's forums like BOTL that kind of function as de facto consumer watchdog groups. I come here to see what people are smoking and what people like. Money's too important to me to go out and buy a bunch of brands I know nothing about, only to find it's poor quality and something I don't like. In fact, most of the cigars in my humidor right now first earned their approval here. Reading here that Caldwell cigars are mediocre and really expensive says a lot about the product. And then I see a video about the owner flying around the world and partying while wearing tailored clothing--I know where his heart is at.
 

bostoneo

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I may be the only guy who hasn't had significant construction issues with Caldwell, but all of mine have smoked very well.
I've only probably had 3 sticks out of 50 or so of the Caldwell's ive smoked that have had draw issues.

Think all comes down to, do you like the cigar? no? don't buy it. Like it? like the price... buy it... I don't think its that complicated... Some people like to jump on the bandwagon for the ride
 

sofc

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I've had a good number of Caldwells with fragile wrappers that have cracked but the flavors have been ok.

I would venture that almost half have had issues (other than the Gibraltar which seems more durable.)
 
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I do not care if I like the cigar brand owner/roller/blender/retailer/rep. I do not care if they know anything about anything. I care if I like the cigar. Having said that, if someone has no integrity, it might influence me to not give them my money.
SOFC - really appreciated your reply, your comment spawned a huge discussion on FB... and no, not anti your perspective, just a general question of what do other consumers think - it even has me asking myself, "Should I care if I like the cigar?" I know I will, because it is my own personal bias, yet your response made me wonder what others think and accept the fact that my own bias is not necessarily fair-minded. Thanks.

STS
 

sofc

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SOFC - really appreciated your reply, your comment spawned a huge discussion on FB... and no, not anti your perspective, just a general question of what do other consumers think - it even has me asking myself, "Should I care if I like the cigar?" I know I will, because it is my own personal bias, yet your response made me wonder what others think and accept the fact that my own bias is not necessarily fair-minded. Thanks.

STS
I think part of the discrepancy is that you personally know the people involved and have had interactions with some/many of them. You probably know who understands and appreciates the business and loves the leaf and know who is just it in for the money.

I have met a few: some have impressed me, and some did not. But I do not know them personally. I do think that makes some difference.
 

HIM*

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which strikes me as odd as the factory where they're made is run by the guys who used to be key at Davidoff, and is the same factory that produces Rodrigo cigars, which I haven't read any complaints about.
Thats pretty ironic. The only cigar I couldn't finish this year has been a Rodrigo Corona Project and the thing just absolutely wouldn't stay lit(though the profile was nice). Very similar to the couple bad Caldwell's Ive had though the Caldwell's were still smokeable as long as I kept a fast pace.
 
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I have never met Robert so I don't know what his actual tobacco knowledge is. To his credit, Caldwell makes good tasting cigars in vitolas that appeal to enthusiasts, its not just 6 x 60 or other huge RG cigars that are all the rave.

I think the last czar being priced at $18 is absurd but its not like everything he puts out has a ridiculous price tag. The Marble House LE is pretty damn good and it only runs $6.30 a pop from smallbatch which is solid price point. LTTK lances are $8.10 each, not cheap exactly, but very far from ridiculous. That's especially true considering its a good cigar and many lances can cost $10+. I grabbed a box from smallbatch in March when they had the 20% going on so they only ran me $7.20 each. That kind of price/deal is what you would call a "sore dick."
 

ChuckMejia

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I have never met Robert so I don't know what his actual tobacco knowledge is. To his credit, Caldwell makes good tasting cigars in vitolas that appeal to enthusiasts, its not just 6 x 60 or other huge RG cigars that are all the rave.

I think the last czar being priced at $18 is absurd but its not like everything he puts out has a ridiculous price tag. The Marble House LE is pretty damn good and it only runs $6.30 a pop from smallbatch which is solid price point. LTTK lances are $8.10 each, not cheap exactly, but very far from ridiculous. That's especially true considering its a good cigar and many lances can cost $10+. I grabbed a box from smallbatch in March when they had the 20% going on so they only ran me $7.20 each. That kind of price/deal is what you would call a "sore dick."
Well said brother. I too got a box of LLTK because of the good price point and it is a great lancero. But some of the stuff is ridiculous.
 
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I ordered a four pack of racks on racks last night after watching the c fed chat with Mr. Bellato.

He seemed very genuine. One of the hosts really enjoyed the cigar. So I spent some money and taking a chance on the new release.

I'm not by any definition a qualified cigar reviewer, but will offer my opinion once they arrive. Just ask.
 
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Just earlier today I was in my local shop in Sacramento, Tower Pipes and Cigars, and spoke to the owner about Lost and Found. They currently have packs of cream machine and pepper cream soda. The owner was telling me that consumers have been pretty hot about these packs. I honestly think that if something is bringing excitement and money to the retailers, it's more than likely a good thing.
Also, my thoughts on the initial poster's question is that the company isn't doing something unethical or sketchy. They aren't being dishonest with what they are selling. The consumer knows that the smoke is a rebranded cigar, and knows the price of the product. Also, I know that rebranded cigars and overruns usually get discounted, but I don't think its unethical to not follow that model. Once the hype dies down, it may be a bad business model. But, its not unethical or sketchy. Just my thoughts on this, which admittedly I'm no expert or anything.
 

KGD

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I'd say its unethical to say you found an old cigar, know what it was branded and sold as, put it in new packaging and doubled the price or more.

It's no different than tossing a corolla engine in a civic, and selling it at a lexus price.
Sometimes, it might be a lexus engine in a lexus car at a lexus price, but their practices aren't authentic and true to the conduct preferred by a brotherhood.

Their practices may not be dishonest, but it is deceptive given INTENTIONAL lack of transparency and pattern of market pricing that is not reflective of rational pricing had the origin been disclosed.
 
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I'd say its unethical to say you found an old cigar, know what it was branded and sold as, put it in new packaging and doubled the price or more.

It's no different than tossing a corolla engine in a civic, and selling it at a lexus price.
Sometimes, it might be a lexus engine in a lexus car at a lexus price, but their practices aren't authentic and true to the conduct preferred by a brotherhood.

Their practices may not be dishonest, but it is deceptive given INTENTIONAL lack of transparency and pattern of market pricing that is not reflective of rational pricing had the origin been disclosed.
They are not selling a short filler cigar with a new band, and saying its a long filler premium smoke. They are selling premium cigars, such as the Camacho Liberty, and putting a different name on it. According to Half Wheel, the MSRP for the Camacho Liberty was $16.60, but Lost and Found is selling it for $14.00. I may be wrong, but just because the smoke isn't being steeply discounted doesn't mean that the price is irrational. To follow your same analogy, it would be the same as taking a BMW engine, placing it inside an Acura body, and selling it as a Lexus. You are getting a premium product, and you are paying a price that is commensurate to the item. Yes, you may not know what the original item was, and the cigar may not be one that you like (thats why we have reviews on BOTL), but it is still a premium product. Also, they are telling you that they are taking the engine from one car, and placing it inside the body of another car. There is no deception.
And, at the end of the day, the consumer decides. Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking you or trying to be negative. I just disagree that Lost and Found is doing anything wrong.
 
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