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BOTL UPCOMING MAINTENANCE
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Conceal Carry Handguns
- Thread starter FullBody Smoker
- Start date
cgraunke
BoM March '14
First step, move out of NY!
Just kidding bro, it will just be harder for you than most.
Do a Web search for NY firearms groups. Check out New York State Rifle & Pistol Association (www.nysrpa.org) and handgunlaw.us for lots of information.
(and prepare for another slippery slope if you haven't already ventured down the handgun path 😆
Best of luck!
Depends on the situation. If I'm somewhere wearing dress clothes and working it's usually a Kahr p380 out of convenience. I have a pm9 dlc as well but it doesn't disappear in a pocket as well. If I'm in street clothes usually a Wilson Combat Sentinel in. 45 or a glock 36.
I used to carry full size guns for years, like glock 21, 20sf, sw 1006, custom Springer 1911s, and have played the caliber game from .45 to 10mm, 357sig, 357mag, 5.7x28, 9mm, .380, etc. Don't go crazy and get something impractical to shoot regularly. I won't carry a gun without flogging the living hell out of it first and getting used to the feel.
Also don't buy too small. I carry a .380 when I can't carry anything else or if my back is killing me. It's convenient but I wouldn't recommend it to a new shooter/CC'r. The recoil is generally more snappy and the reduced ballistics mean you'd better make each shot count. You should be doing that anyways, but yeah... Not the most confidence inspiring carry piece.
For its universality I usually suggest a glock 19. It's easy to maintain, easy to shoot, easy to understand and diagnose problems in the moment, and generally rugged. A Springer xd or sw m&p would also be decent choices, but the aftermarket support for the glock is still superior.
Holsters I like Occidental Leather and TT gun leather for leather pieces and Comp-Tac for kydex. Each has its place.
I used to carry full size guns for years, like glock 21, 20sf, sw 1006, custom Springer 1911s, and have played the caliber game from .45 to 10mm, 357sig, 357mag, 5.7x28, 9mm, .380, etc. Don't go crazy and get something impractical to shoot regularly. I won't carry a gun without flogging the living hell out of it first and getting used to the feel.
Also don't buy too small. I carry a .380 when I can't carry anything else or if my back is killing me. It's convenient but I wouldn't recommend it to a new shooter/CC'r. The recoil is generally more snappy and the reduced ballistics mean you'd better make each shot count. You should be doing that anyways, but yeah... Not the most confidence inspiring carry piece.
For its universality I usually suggest a glock 19. It's easy to maintain, easy to shoot, easy to understand and diagnose problems in the moment, and generally rugged. A Springer xd or sw m&p would also be decent choices, but the aftermarket support for the glock is still superior.
Holsters I like Occidental Leather and TT gun leather for leather pieces and Comp-Tac for kydex. Each has its place.
In NH it is really easy to get. You simply fill out a form and drop said form off at the police department with $10 and wait a few weeks. I've had mine for a couple years now. When I filed for my permit my wife had just started working at Sig Sauer. In order to get a discount (which was pretty good) she needed to work there for a year. However just before her one year anniversary they laid her off. Man I was pissed! I really wanted a P250.
It's scary how fast that happens, isn't it?
For what it is: a single-stack, sub-compact gun in popular center-fire calibers... it is phenomenal. The safety is stupid, but I simply leave it in the off position, and it's low-profile enough that I won't accidentally activate it. Add a good holster and good sights (the stock ones are garbage), and it's ready to rock.
But, like I said... I never use it. I would have to be wearing something like a slim-fit, fully tailored suit for me to need it.
In terms of performance: It really doesn't handle like a sub-compact. I ditched the 7 round mag, and bought several 8 rounders. That little bit of extra length makes it handle like a mid-size gun, just slim (think 1911 Commander or such). Very accurate. In the hands of a competent shooter, you can easily ring steel in a walk back drill out to 75 yards. 100 yards with a really good shooter.
The trigger is what all M&Ps should have shipped with. It's very good. A little heavy, but very good. Clean break with a solid reset.
It's just too big for pocket carry, unless you wear absurd cargo pants with GIGANTIC pockets. It definitely needs to ride in a good holster (I use Dark Star Gear for it, for a number of reasons).
At the end of the day, it's hard for me to justify owning it. Great gun, but I never use it. I can carry my full-sized guns just about everywhere. If you have a specific NEED (I repeat: need) for an extremely slim, sub-compact gun... this is the ideal choice. Blows the PPS and XDS out of the water. But, for most people... the M&P Compact or Full-Size are infinitely better choices.
As far as budget goes there isn't one. I won't spend over a grand for a handgun, at least not at the moment. However, $600-$800 for a handgun and proper holster would be the range I would be in. As far as the .357, I'm dead nuts with that gun out to 25 yards. I haven't had the opportunity to shoot it at farther range. I feel I would be confident in an armed conflict, however, I would prefer to have more rounds and semi auto vs the double action as a CC piece. I appreciate all the feedback on this thread and look forward to more, as I'm sure when crunch/purchase time comes I will have some more concise questions.
A gun is nothing more than a tool... think of it like buying a hammer or a set of screw drivers..
Are you looking for something that will last you a lifetime, be reliable, wont break, is ergo dynamic, low maintenance, etc..
Or will some inexpensive knock off do the job? (primarily going to be a bedside table gun, wont get carried often, see much use/abuse, etc..)..
how do you intend on using it? how frequently will you use it? how rough will you be on it? what conditions will it be exposed to? whats the climate like where you will be most of the time? etc..etc..
Unless you are talking about some kind of crazy hand cannon.. concealment really isnt an issue.. you might need to adjust your wardrobe a little bit.. but I've seen women (much harder for them to "hide" a pistol because of the way their clothes fit and the way they are shaped..) conceal govt model 1911's without a problem... someone your size/build will have no problem keeping anything from a micro to a full size pistol hidden as long as youre willing to make the effort..
those are the type of questions that should drive your decision on both a pistol and a holster (and mag pouches, and ammo, etc..etc..etc..)...
For me.. I've been running the same rig for over a decade... gen 3 G19 in a Kramer Horsehide, mid ride, vertical scabbard.. Ive literally taken that combo all over the globe.. subjected it to just about every climate, element, condition you can imagine.. and it keeps on running... Ive got about 50,000 rounds through my current G19.. the one my wife now owns (was mine.. she decided she liked it.. so she took it lol..).. has about 150,000 rounds through it... other than replacing the springs.. no additional maintenance beyond simple cleaning has ever had to be done on either pistol.. the horsehide looks as good as the day I originally bought it..
Super durable.. super reliable.. reasonably ergo dynamic.. easy to conceal.. light weight with no sharp edges/corners (comfortable to wear).. etc..etc...
I was wearing it, along with 2 spare mags (and a couple of other things) the day you and I met... Im pretty sure neither you or anyone else in the room had a clue...
I own several other pistols (and have owned several more).. and have at different times carried a variety of 1911's, sigs, a couple of berettas (issued.. hated them..), and an old S&W 945... Ive also carried a variety of BUGs (Back Up Gun).. ranging from little beretta 21a, tomcats, seacamps, keltec p32, S&W bodyguards, etc..etc... and "professionally" (in one capacity or another) carried a pistol for better than 20 years..
No matter what else I try.... I always end up going back to the glock (started carrying one in the early 1990's for the first time)...
Simply stated.. it works (for me)...
There are valid arguments that can be made for kydex vs leather.. 9mm vs 45... single stack vs double.. full size vs compact.. etc..etc...
just like there are valid arguments for table saw vs circular saw vs jig saw vs hand saw.... they'll all cut wood.. but each have features and capabilities that the other doesnt.. it really depends on what your situation is.... as well as your preferences...
go test drive a couple of things.. see what you think.. then "pull the trigger"
Are you looking for something that will last you a lifetime, be reliable, wont break, is ergo dynamic, low maintenance, etc..
Or will some inexpensive knock off do the job? (primarily going to be a bedside table gun, wont get carried often, see much use/abuse, etc..)..
how do you intend on using it? how frequently will you use it? how rough will you be on it? what conditions will it be exposed to? whats the climate like where you will be most of the time? etc..etc..
Unless you are talking about some kind of crazy hand cannon.. concealment really isnt an issue.. you might need to adjust your wardrobe a little bit.. but I've seen women (much harder for them to "hide" a pistol because of the way their clothes fit and the way they are shaped..) conceal govt model 1911's without a problem... someone your size/build will have no problem keeping anything from a micro to a full size pistol hidden as long as youre willing to make the effort..
those are the type of questions that should drive your decision on both a pistol and a holster (and mag pouches, and ammo, etc..etc..etc..)...
For me.. I've been running the same rig for over a decade... gen 3 G19 in a Kramer Horsehide, mid ride, vertical scabbard.. Ive literally taken that combo all over the globe.. subjected it to just about every climate, element, condition you can imagine.. and it keeps on running... Ive got about 50,000 rounds through my current G19.. the one my wife now owns (was mine.. she decided she liked it.. so she took it lol..).. has about 150,000 rounds through it... other than replacing the springs.. no additional maintenance beyond simple cleaning has ever had to be done on either pistol.. the horsehide looks as good as the day I originally bought it..
Super durable.. super reliable.. reasonably ergo dynamic.. easy to conceal.. light weight with no sharp edges/corners (comfortable to wear).. etc..etc...
I was wearing it, along with 2 spare mags (and a couple of other things) the day you and I met... Im pretty sure neither you or anyone else in the room had a clue...
I own several other pistols (and have owned several more).. and have at different times carried a variety of 1911's, sigs, a couple of berettas (issued.. hated them..), and an old S&W 945... Ive also carried a variety of BUGs (Back Up Gun).. ranging from little beretta 21a, tomcats, seacamps, keltec p32, S&W bodyguards, etc..etc... and "professionally" (in one capacity or another) carried a pistol for better than 20 years..
No matter what else I try.... I always end up going back to the glock (started carrying one in the early 1990's for the first time)...
Simply stated.. it works (for me)...
There are valid arguments that can be made for kydex vs leather.. 9mm vs 45... single stack vs double.. full size vs compact.. etc..etc...
just like there are valid arguments for table saw vs circular saw vs jig saw vs hand saw.... they'll all cut wood.. but each have features and capabilities that the other doesnt.. it really depends on what your situation is.... as well as your preferences...
go test drive a couple of things.. see what you think.. then "pull the trigger"
I carry one of two:
S&W MP 9c in a Comp-Tac Minotaur Holster
or
Ruger LCP .380 in a Recluse Pocket Holster
as other have mentioned, you need to be confident in shooting whatever you carry. You also need to practice drawing it and then firing it, it's part of the process. Only carry where you can easily access it. In a threatened situation/range I'm lights out with either one that I carry. Do I care if I can hit at 50-75yds...yes, but in a defensive situation in most states you'll be under investigation why you did not try to leave at that range.
S&W MP 9c in a Comp-Tac Minotaur Holster
or
Ruger LCP .380 in a Recluse Pocket Holster
as other have mentioned, you need to be confident in shooting whatever you carry. You also need to practice drawing it and then firing it, it's part of the process. Only carry where you can easily access it. In a threatened situation/range I'm lights out with either one that I carry. Do I care if I can hit at 50-75yds...yes, but in a defensive situation in most states you'll be under investigation why you did not try to leave at that range.
In reality, if you are using a pistol in a defensive situation, at anything over 7 yards they better have a gun already pointed in your direction... You WILL be arrested and charged at 50 yards. I notice many people confuse yards with feet when talking about shooting, so I thought I'd add this for clarification. If you are shooting across a football field, you need a rifle. I know guys who can hit a steel plate at 100 yards with a 1911, but the factors that play into a shot like that make it completely impractical and irresponsible in a defensive scenario. /threadhijack ha ha.
Not exactly true. They've proven at up to 23' a guy w/ a knife in hand and you w/o your weapon drawn, and the knife wins (close to your 21'). Also they don't have to have a gun pointed at you or even a gun on them for you to feel threatened and in fear for your life, which in Ohio is what you need to defend yourself with lethal force. Each state is a bit different and every LEO agency will treat things differently based on the circumstances present for the situation.
I'm familiar with that exercise. I was speaking in a generality for the sake of making the point. I'm sorry if the message was lost because of my choice of example. I'm a firearms instructor in Florida, which is a castle doctrine and stand your ground state. Even still you should always plan to be arrested and charged. Your attorney is going to have a hell of a time arguing that you were in imminent danger (not the same as perceived like it appears you are referring to) if you take a shot at over 7-10 yards. I've worked with Gutmacher, one of the top firearms attorneys in the US, and this is his general stance. Take it for what it's worth.
The reason shooting at 50 yards is probably a really bad idea is not just the legality, but the impact of adrenaline and stress on your fine motor skills. If you follow Ayoob, which I assume you do at least in part based on your referencing the knife dash vs draw to fire test, you should look into the drills they do with blood draws. I doubt Rob Letham could make a 50 yard shot under that kind of duress. You are increasing the likelihood of bystanders getting injured even entertaining the idea that you could do that in a SHTF moment. If you are physically and mentally capable of that kind of shooting you probably make your living doing it. A new cc'r wouldn't fall into that category unless they were elite military.
I'm a strong proponent of training like you are in the moment, and while plinking is one thing, it shouldn't be a consideration in a defensive scenario... Unless zombies are involved in which case have at it.
Seriously not trying to continue to thread jack. We can continue via PM if you like. Sorry guys.
cmhicksusmc
Corporal/USMC
I alternate between my HK USPtac fullsize with meprolight sights and my Springfield XDS .45
Id like to change it up a bit and carry my american Derringer .357 from time to time but man that thing hurts to shoot.
Id like to change it up a bit and carry my american Derringer .357 from time to time but man that thing hurts to shoot.
Ha ha ha. Those little guys bite hard as hell!
blessednxs65
Is it Nicaraguan
I am going to go out on a limb here and offer up one that you might want to consider, it's the sccy which for the $ is not a bad piece to own. I read about it here when putting my Christmas List together in November.
Pick up this edition of Pocket Pistol if you can.
Pick up this edition of Pocket Pistol if you can.
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LigaPrivadaFanboy
Unrepentant Hoarder
Depending on what I'm wearing, I alternate between a G23 and HKP30 (also in .40) in a Galco Royal Guard IWB holster. In winter I wear a 511 Aggressor Parka, which is cut specifically to avoid printing while carrying. I can cram a G21 or HK45 in my pants and nobody'd know
My CC weapon depends on my clothes, and they depend at least in part on the weather. My "summer gun" is a Kel-tec P3-AT with a Crimson Trace laser grip, carried usually in an OWB holster from holsterstore.net or a Kydex Recluse pocket holster. I also have a 1st gen. Ruger LCP, which is essentially a nicer finished knock-off of the Kel-tec with a trigger that isn't as good. Current productions of the LCP have an improved trigger and sights.
My in-between pistol is a Kahr CM-9, also with a laser grip and also carried in the same kind of OWB holster. In colder weather, when I am wearing an overcoat, it sometimes rides in a deSantis SuperFly (a Nemesis with a square panel to prevent printing) in my coat pocket.
When clothing provides enough concealment, my "winter gun" is a Springfield XDs .45 in the same kind of holster. Basically, I try to carry the largest caliber weapon I can, consistent with adequate concealment.
Since you seem to like wheel guns, I would look at one of the S&W J-frames. Foolproof and unbreakable. No worries about "tap, rack, bang." With +P self-defense ammo, they are a great CC weapon.
My in-between pistol is a Kahr CM-9, also with a laser grip and also carried in the same kind of OWB holster. In colder weather, when I am wearing an overcoat, it sometimes rides in a deSantis SuperFly (a Nemesis with a square panel to prevent printing) in my coat pocket.
When clothing provides enough concealment, my "winter gun" is a Springfield XDs .45 in the same kind of holster. Basically, I try to carry the largest caliber weapon I can, consistent with adequate concealment.
Since you seem to like wheel guns, I would look at one of the S&W J-frames. Foolproof and unbreakable. No worries about "tap, rack, bang." With +P self-defense ammo, they are a great CC weapon.
