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Kitty Litter the Final Test
- Thread starter cf2112
- Start date
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:
Damn,
I had some questions about this debate as I am going to set up my wine Coolerdor this weekend. Boy am I glad I searched out this thread before asking. I guess I'll be experementing with the KL for a bit just for the sake of cost. I will run a Cigar Oasis XL as well. It sounds like using KL may require me to do a little hit and miss with the water ammounts before adding my smokes to the cooller. I use beads in all my smaller humis, as 1 lb of beads keeps 5 humis sitting at 66% for months on end. I would love to be able to support our sponsors this time as well, but the cost dosn't make sense if I can get it to work for much le$$
I had some questions about this debate as I am going to set up my wine Coolerdor this weekend. Boy am I glad I searched out this thread before asking. I guess I'll be experementing with the KL for a bit just for the sake of cost. I will run a Cigar Oasis XL as well. It sounds like using KL may require me to do a little hit and miss with the water ammounts before adding my smokes to the cooller. I use beads in all my smaller humis, as 1 lb of beads keeps 5 humis sitting at 66% for months on end. I would love to be able to support our sponsors this time as well, but the cost dosn't make sense if I can get it to work for much le$$
Oasis will be your main RH source without a doubt. The beads or KL will act like a buffer to absorb overage or add a little RH when needed. I use my original 1 lb. of 65% beads in the wine cooler and KL in the coolidors. KL for me still holds in the 67-68% range which seems to be just fine for the sticks. The wine cooler varies more, but overall the RH is about 66% on average and the sticks always smoke well.
CWS
<b>Lead Moderator</b>
Lsten to the chosen one all. Kitty litter ohmmmmmmmmmm....
Greg
BoM October 2006
IMO, I don't think that is possible, given the thermodynamics of the water molecule. I am not going to try to explain this, but trust me, the water will evaporate, maybe not at the same rate as the beads, but water will be released as vapor. However, at some point an equilibrium will be achieved and the rate of absorption and release will be about the same. From what I've read, I believe kitty litter will reach this point at around 65-68% humidity, assuming that the media is not over-saturated, nor under-saturated.
Greg
BoM October 2006
Another point, with kitty litter, the components are designed to absorb 'moisture', i.e., cat piss and not release 'odor', which is most cases is ammonia. This is because ammonia is ionic and will bind to the silica. But the water in the urine is non-ionic, it carries a neutral charge and therefore will not remained bound to the media through ionic bonds. It will be released as vapor when enough energy (heat, wind, UV radiation...) is present.
I completely understand the desire to support our site sponsors, but I don't understand why KL is still such a mystery. Pour some in a bowl, add enough distilled water to make about half the KL wet, put the bowl in the humi, and enjoy your cigars. Sounds familiar?
My winecoolerdor has been running at 64%+-1 for about 6 months now, using nothing more than some KL in two containers. I keep one container of dry KL near the top, and one container of semi-wet on the bottom.
I'm convinced that KL is close enough to HF beads for that application.
I still use HF beads in my small desktop humis. I think its much easier to destabilize the climate inside a smaller humi, and HF beads are such a sure thing that the cost difference for such small amounts is a non issue.
My winecoolerdor has been running at 64%+-1 for about 6 months now, using nothing more than some KL in two containers. I keep one container of dry KL near the top, and one container of semi-wet on the bottom.
I'm convinced that KL is close enough to HF beads for that application.
I still use HF beads in my small desktop humis. I think its much easier to destabilize the climate inside a smaller humi, and HF beads are such a sure thing that the cost difference for such small amounts is a non issue.
CWS
<b>Lead Moderator</b>
I dont think it as much supporting the sponsors as it is a product designed for specific use with specific results. The beads have been designed to yeild very specific results. KL is not the same thing. It has many of the same characteristics but it is not the same thing. As many have said, if you have $5,000 worth of cigar products do you want something that is engineered to meet certain specifications or something that should work. I have two cooledors, one with beads and one with Kitty Litter. They both perform very well and hold between 65 to 68%. Funny tho that I always put the limited edition, special cigars in the cooledor with the beads.
maybe KL/HF is like politics and religion, subjects best left alone between friends :razz:
Somewhat related, or so I hope... (extremely dumbed down, apologies if you understand the subject matter).
In the vaccine manufacture business, chicken eggs are often used to "grow up" vaccine. The eggs need humidity, from the air, to keep the "inners" hydrated, and produce the maximum amount of "inners" with "vaccine stuff" in it. Currently, the majority of incubators out there have "pans o' water" in the bottom, which is supposed to evaporate to the incubator and in turn increase the humidity round the eggs. The problem is, the "pans" need refilling with water, and need to be changed/ cleaned periodically to prevent "nasty ju-ju" from growing in the pans' water. As such, every incubator needs "water in/ water out" ports - not feasible in sterile cleanrooms and such. <Whew! enough science (edit: stuff) for now>
Cool (and related) thing: Our PI (principal investigator -- the 'big guy manager') decided that we could use an incubator without the "pan o' water" but with *saturated* KL, instead. No need to worry about sterility so long as the "typical" autoclaved water be used. Every week, add about 100mL more sterile water, keeping it *soaked*, and the rel humidity is >90% in there.
I'm curious if heartfelt beads has thought of that corner of the market, or even if they have a way of having 95%rh beads... even if not thought of, I found it pretty interesting, at very least, that autoclaved KL has its use in maintaining humidity in the sciences... So there you have it, folks: Kitty Litter saves lives via vaccines! Well, sorta...
Just my 2 cents, and hope you find this remotely interesting,
ZugbugPete
In the vaccine manufacture business, chicken eggs are often used to "grow up" vaccine. The eggs need humidity, from the air, to keep the "inners" hydrated, and produce the maximum amount of "inners" with "vaccine stuff" in it. Currently, the majority of incubators out there have "pans o' water" in the bottom, which is supposed to evaporate to the incubator and in turn increase the humidity round the eggs. The problem is, the "pans" need refilling with water, and need to be changed/ cleaned periodically to prevent "nasty ju-ju" from growing in the pans' water. As such, every incubator needs "water in/ water out" ports - not feasible in sterile cleanrooms and such. <Whew! enough science (edit: stuff) for now>
Cool (and related) thing: Our PI (principal investigator -- the 'big guy manager') decided that we could use an incubator without the "pan o' water" but with *saturated* KL, instead. No need to worry about sterility so long as the "typical" autoclaved water be used. Every week, add about 100mL more sterile water, keeping it *soaked*, and the rel humidity is >90% in there.
I'm curious if heartfelt beads has thought of that corner of the market, or even if they have a way of having 95%rh beads... even if not thought of, I found it pretty interesting, at very least, that autoclaved KL has its use in maintaining humidity in the sciences... So there you have it, folks: Kitty Litter saves lives via vaccines! Well, sorta...
Just my 2 cents, and hope you find this remotely interesting,
ZugbugPete