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Cigar Molds Thread

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The ones I had made at custommade.com by Dana Scinto 2.5 years ago used some kind of rock-solid oak. Super smooth troughs, super hard.
https://www.custommade.com/by/queenofallmediums/
True. I think hard woods will give you the smoothest finish. But something softer may pull a little moisture out. Plus you would want to stay away from anything with a lot of rosin. Guess the only real way to figure out what's best is to make a few.
I don't think $110 is highway robbery for a CNC shop to make a custom piece, but if someone were to set up something making just molds you could get the price down quite a bit. I'd figure in the $50 to $75 range. Depending on the wood used.
 
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True. I think hard woods will give you the smoothest finish. But something softer may pull a little moisture out. Plus you would want to stay away from anything with a lot of rosin. Guess the only real way to figure out what's best is to make a few.
I don't think $110 is highway robbery for a CNC shop to make a custom piece, but if someone were to set up something making just molds you could get the price down quite a bit. I'd figure in the $50 to $75 range. Depending on the wood used.
Yeah, agreed. Totally reasonable for a one-off custom job. Well, these oak ones were the perfect material for these molds. No coating or anything, just hard and smooth = good.
 
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True. I think hard woods will give you the smoothest finish. But something softer may pull a little moisture out. Plus you would want to stay away from anything with a lot of rosin. Guess the only real way to figure out what's best is to make a few.
I don't think $110 is highway robbery for a CNC shop to make a custom piece, but if someone were to set up something making just molds you could get the price down quite a bit. I'd figure in the $50 to $75 range. Depending on the wood used.
There are so many factors involved that I learned over the past month or two of experimenting with this. Like - time you lose when something breaks. I lost a $200 motherboard on a print a few weeks back. It took time and money to fix it. There's obviously materials too, and losing your equipment for your own use when you are creating orders. Someone would have to be really dedicated and there would have to be a pretty large demand for molds for it to happen correctly, in my opinion. If it was easy and a big demand there would already be custom new molds everywhere. The demand is a big thing - I think it says something when only 2 places online will even sell leaf, and those choices are pretty limited compared to the commercial cigar choice at that. If the demand was higher, we'd have an Amazon for leaf sourcing with every type imaginable. I could probably fill everyone on this thread with molds in a few weeks or a month. Then where is the demand?

To print something commercially this size it starts at $60, or more, for 2 sticks. A roll of plastic is about $20-$30. The number of molds you can get out of that roll are limited, and only come down when prints have to be restarted and thrown away. The economics don't really add up to produce more than one offs for the $50-$75 range unless you cut down on materials and time. If you buy a brick of ABS and CNC it, you are buying more plastic than you need and removing waste, which would likely make the materials cost more. 3D printing adds material instead of removing it.

The time I put into design is not much at all compared to the monkey work I put into making the machinery behave. I can design a work of art bunch mold in no time flat. I could make you a box press mold... or a square mold even. On the other hand, it takes at least a day to create the physical object if nothing messes up with the printer or CNC. I think I have it down to about 12 hours for a 4 stick mold, 24 continuous hours for 6-8 stick molds. Rarely does it go perfectly. Lol. I just found a whole roll of plastic that would refuse to print. Since I like being frugal, I tried really hard. Then I realized I lost a bunch of hours trying to save a $25 roll of plastic. Tons of stuff to consider with this thread. Producing 10 molds, that people would probably never reorder because (hopefully) your molds are good, dictates prices should be higher or it's not worth it to the seller to mass produce these things for the home rolling crowd. I imagine the commercial industry requires much more industrial strength molds.

But I only print these things as a hobby and for fun. I happen to have the equipment because I have other hobbies that use them too. So I'm lucky. If you went from the ground up you'd be putting down thousands of dollars in expenses (1-2k for a somewhat decent printer, but probably more and at least 1-2k for CNC equipment) Most of my machinery is cobbled together like Frankenstein from DIY upgrades I've made over the years (and part of the reason my CNC isn't fully functional right now). I haven't given this much more serious thought about the logistics then what I wrote above because all those factors started outweighing the fun of it all.
 
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There are so many factors involved that I learned over the past month or two of experimenting with this. Like - time you lose when something breaks. I lost a $200 motherboard on a print a few weeks back. It took time and money to fix it. There's obviously materials too, and losing your equipment for your own use when you are creating orders. Someone would have to be really dedicated and there would have to be a pretty large demand for molds for it to happen correctly, in my opinion. If it was easy and a big demand there would already be custom new molds everywhere. The demand is a big thing - I think it says something when only 2 places online will even sell leaf, and those choices are pretty limited compared to the commercial cigar choice at that. If the demand was higher, we'd have an Amazon for leaf sourcing with every type imaginable. I could probably fill everyone on this thread with molds in a few weeks or a month. Then where is the demand?

To print something commercially this size it starts at $60, or more, for 2 sticks. A roll of plastic is about $20-$30. The number of molds you can get out of that roll are limited, and only come down when prints have to be restarted and thrown away. The economics don't really add up to produce more than one offs for the $50-$75 range unless you cut down on materials and time. If you buy a brick of ABS and CNC it, you are buying more plastic than you need and removing waste, which would likely make the materials cost more. 3D printing adds material instead of removing it.

The time I put into design is not much at all compared to the monkey work I put into making the machinery behave. I can design a work of art bunch mold in no time flat. I could make you a box press mold... or a square mold even. On the other hand, it takes at least a day to create the physical object if nothing messes up with the printer or CNC. I think I have it down to about 12 hours for a 4 stick mold, 24 continuous hours for 6-8 stick molds. Rarely does it go perfectly. Lol. I just found a whole roll of plastic that would refuse to print. Since I like being frugal, I tried really hard. Then I realized I lost a bunch of hours trying to save a $25 roll of plastic. Tons of stuff to consider with this thread. Producing 10 molds, that people would probably never reorder because (hopefully) your molds are good, dictates prices should be higher or it's not worth it to the seller to mass produce these things for the home rolling crowd. I imagine the commercial industry requires much more industrial strength molds.

But I only print these things as a hobby and for fun. I happen to have the equipment because I have other hobbies that use them too. So I'm lucky. If you went from the ground up you'd be putting down thousands of dollars in expenses (1-2k for a somewhat decent printer, but probably more and at least 1-2k for CNC equipment) Most of my machinery is cobbled together like Frankenstein from DIY upgrades I've made over the years (and part of the reason my CNC isn't fully functional right now). I haven't given this much more serious thought about the logistics then what I wrote above because all those factors started outweighing the fun of it all.
Lol, my 8 stick mold is apparently too large to print at a major print shop, and they can't print one of my 6 stick molds. My printer does them just fine. The other molds look in the $60-$100 range which is a little more than I would charge friends for doing one offs. That extra margin is probably their profit. You can get all these prices I'm talking about at Thingiverse in the "Apps" button on a "thing" you are viewing.
 
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There are so many factors involved that I learned over the past month or two of experimenting with this. Like - time you lose when something breaks. I lost a $200 motherboard on a print a few weeks back. It took time and money to fix it. There's obviously materials too, and losing your equipment for your own use when you are creating orders. Someone would have to be really dedicated and there would have to be a pretty large demand for molds for it to happen correctly, in my opinion. If it was easy and a big demand there would already be custom new molds everywhere. The demand is a big thing - I think it says something when only 2 places online will even sell leaf, and those choices are pretty limited compared to the commercial cigar choice at that. If the demand was higher, we'd have an Amazon for leaf sourcing with every type imaginable. I could probably fill everyone on this thread with molds in a few weeks or a month. Then where is the demand?

To print something commercially this size it starts at $60, or more, for 2 sticks. A roll of plastic is about $20-$30. The number of molds you can get out of that roll are limited, and only come down when prints have to be restarted and thrown away. The economics don't really add up to produce more than one offs for the $50-$75 range unless you cut down on materials and time. If you buy a brick of ABS and CNC it, you are buying more plastic than you need and removing waste, which would likely make the materials cost more. 3D printing adds material instead of removing it.

The time I put into design is not much at all compared to the monkey work I put into making the machinery behave. I can design a work of art bunch mold in no time flat. I could make you a box press mold... or a square mold even. On the other hand, it takes at least a day to create the physical object if nothing messes up with the printer or CNC. I think I have it down to about 12 hours for a 4 stick mold, 24 continuous hours for 6-8 stick molds. Rarely does it go perfectly. Lol. I just found a whole roll of plastic that would refuse to print. Since I like being frugal, I tried really hard. Then I realized I lost a bunch of hours trying to save a $25 roll of plastic. Tons of stuff to consider with this thread. Producing 10 molds, that people would probably never reorder because (hopefully) your molds are good, dictates prices should be higher or it's not worth it to the seller to mass produce these things for the home rolling crowd. I imagine the commercial industry requires much more industrial strength molds.

But I only print these things as a hobby and for fun. I happen to have the equipment because I have other hobbies that use them too. So I'm lucky. If you went from the ground up you'd be putting down thousands of dollars in expenses (1-2k for a somewhat decent printer, but probably more and at least 1-2k for CNC equipment) Most of my machinery is cobbled together like Frankenstein from DIY upgrades I've made over the years (and part of the reason my CNC isn't fully functional right now). I haven't given this much more serious thought about the logistics then what I wrote above because all those factors started outweighing the fun of it all.
Yeah, for sure understood. The only incidental thing that causes a twitch in my needle there is on the "If there were demand then there would be an Amazon." The reason the needle twitches is that I think there could be such a demand, there just isn't now. That is true of any mass market-ish situation; something good was there in the ether but it had to be "tapped." When I realize how much I've learned from this about the cigars that I enjoy, then I think lots more people would enjoy this kind of enrichment to their cigar enjoyment. Three years ago I could not have told you what ligero was and would have been very vague about what "Habano" tobacco was, and I'd already been smoking cigars for 25 years by then!

OTOH, the nature of this biz is not like books or model airplanes. Good tobacco is hard to make and precious as hell and the whole racket is hidden in obfuscation and lies, right down to our tiny little mini-ticket retail level. But let's say it wasn't like that: we could get killer Nicaraguan or Cuban tobacco ready to roll: then we WOULD get it and this would be a massive hobby. $2.50 a stick vs $10+, and with the satisfaction of making your own great cigar to share with friends? It would be huge. Word would get out. But the leaf isn't there yet for that. And obviously things are not going in that direction.
 
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Yeah, for sure understood. The only incidental thing that causes a twitch in my needle there is on the "If there were demand then there would be an Amazon." The reason the needle twitches is that I think there could be such a demand, there just isn't now. That is true of any mass market-ish situation; something good was there in the ether but it had to be "tapped." When I realize how much I've learned from this about the cigars that I enjoy, then I think lots more people would enjoy this kind of enrichment to their cigar enjoyment. Three years ago I could not have told you what ligero was and would have been very vague about what "Habano" tobacco was, and I'd already been smoking cigars for 25 years by then!

OTOH, the nature of this biz is not like books or model airplanes. Good tobacco is hard to make and precious as hell and the whole racket is hidden in obfuscation and lies, right down to our tiny little mini-ticket retail level. But let's say it wasn't like that: we could get killer Nicaraguan or Cuban tobacco ready to roll: then we WOULD get it and this would be a massive hobby. $2.50 a stick vs $10+, and with the satisfaction of making your own great cigar to share with friends? It would be huge. Word would get out. But the leaf isn't there yet for that. And obviously things are not going in that direction.
Don't agree leaf availability is the main stumbling block. I'd reckon Thorsten Veblen is the dude with the answer. When you blow twelve bucks on a mediocre gar you pamper yourself. When you roll one better yourself for a buck you get your hands dirty. Of course, all this is speculation, cause we can't crack open people's heads and see what's ticking inside. But my feel tends to blame conspicuous consumption. After all, go down to the store & buy stick after stick & what you find is 99% of improvement occurs between around $3 to $6 ... and only half those are worth a match. After that, it's mostly fancy bands and slick promotions. In fact, for my money, at somewhere around ten bucks blenders start rolling the dice, trying too hard, & so the dud factor skyrockets.
 
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Yeah, for sure understood. The only incidental thing that causes a twitch in my needle there is on the "If there were demand then there would be an Amazon." The reason the needle twitches is that I think there could be such a demand, there just isn't now. That is true of any mass market-ish situation; something good was there in the ether but it had to be "tapped." When I realize how much I've learned from this about the cigars that I enjoy, then I think lots more people would enjoy this kind of enrichment to their cigar enjoyment. Three years ago I could not have told you what ligero was and would have been very vague about what "Habano" tobacco was, and I'd already been smoking cigars for 25 years by then!

OTOH, the nature of this biz is not like books or model airplanes. Good tobacco is hard to make and precious as hell and the whole racket is hidden in obfuscation and lies, right down to our tiny little mini-ticket retail level. But let's say it wasn't like that: we could get killer Nicaraguan or Cuban tobacco ready to roll: then we WOULD get it and this would be a massive hobby. $2.50 a stick vs $10+, and with the satisfaction of making your own great cigar to share with friends? It would be huge. Word would get out. But the leaf isn't there yet for that. And obviously things are not going in that direction.
Another thing to consider is that with tobacco it is almost subscription-like revenue for the supplier. You are coming back if their stuff is good. They can hopefully depend on repeat customers to keep their business going. It doesn't really work that way with someone producing molds because once you buy one, not counting a freak accident, you probably don't need another in that ring size for your natural life.
 
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Another thing to consider is that with tobacco it is almost subscription-like revenue for the supplier. You are coming back if their stuff is good. They can hopefully depend on repeat customers to keep their business going. It doesn't really work that way with someone producing molds because once you buy one, not counting a freak accident, you probably don't need another in that ring size for your natural life.
Isn't "in that ring size" less of a consideration than the "another mold" part, considering you can take one parejo model, scale it to the 8 standard sizes, and print them all to the same (material, size) block of wood? Putting aside the "Moldless Pride" crowd, a typical roller might eventually want to have 37, 40, 42, 44, 46, 47, 50, 52, 52 torpedo, perfecto.
 
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Isn't "in that ring size" less of a consideration than the "another mold" part, considering you can take one parejo model, scale it to the 8 standard sizes, and print them all to the same (material, size) block of wood? Putting aside the "Moldless Pride" crowd, a typical roller might eventually want to have 37, 40, 42, 44, 46, 47, 50, 52, 52 torpedo, perfecto.
I agree. But are you going to buy all those again? You'll definitely get more tobacco, but your mold situation should be taken care of barring breakage. And how many people would want or be able to afford 10 molds each? I have a printer and I have ... maybe 4 ... molds here.
 
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Isn't "in that ring size" less of a consideration than the "another mold" part, considering you can take one parejo model, scale it to the 8 standard sizes, and print them all to the same (material, size) block of wood? Putting aside the "Moldless Pride" crowd, a typical roller might eventually want to have 37, 40, 42, 44, 46, 47, 50, 52, 52 torpedo, perfecto.
Another thought I had: If you print 10 molds, and you're trying to cover the cost of a $2k printer or CNC, which is an average guestimate there and not high by any means, you'd have to charge an extra $200 per mold to make up that cost. You'd have to get to 100 molds to bring it down to $20 extra per mold, assuming you never had a breakdown and required more parts. That's 10 people wanting 10 mold with money in hand and willing to pay for them. I doubt if we all collectively put in a purchase for what we wanted we would all get above 50 molds, let alone 100... but I could be wrong. But even at 100 molds, that's still an extra $20 the purchaser is paying, and makes it extremely hard to get into the $50-$75 range when you have consumables, time, and all that to factor in.
 
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Another thought I had: If you print 10 molds, and you're trying to cover the cost of a $2k printer or CNC, which is an average guestimate there and not high by any means, you'd have to charge an extra $200 per mold to make up that cost. You'd have to get to 100 molds to bring it down to $20 extra per mold, assuming you never had a breakdown and required more parts. That's 10 people wanting 10 mold with money in hand and willing to pay for them. I doubt if we all collectively put in a purchase for what we wanted we would all get above 50 molds, let alone 100... but I could be wrong. But even at 100 molds, that's still an extra $20 the purchaser is paying, and makes it extremely hard to get into the $50-$75 range when you have consumables, time, and all that to factor in.
It's not always about covering the cost of the machine. Or at least not for me when it comes to building a CNC. It's at the end of the day having a CNC machine. For me it's just like any other hobby. Lets face it, $2k on a hobby these days is just a drop in the bucket. I have more than that tied up in guns. And have friends that have more than that tied up in a single gun for that matter. It's the same for just about any sport you are into. Remember, for most of us here, the home rolling is just something to do to pass the time. And when someone in our little community has the means to build something to help another brother out he does so almost always without question.
 
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I'm reminded of that Steve Martin skit from the 70s where he's calculating how many show's he'll have to do at what ticket price before he can quit. He ends up with, "Ten thousand dollars a ticket. One show, good bye."
 
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It's not always about covering the cost of the machine. Or at least not for me when it comes to building a CNC. It's at the end of the day having a CNC machine. For me it's just like any other hobby. Lets face it, $2k on a hobby these days is just a drop in the bucket. I have more than that tied up in guns. And have friends that have more than that tied up in a single gun for that matter. It's the same for just about any sport you are into. Remember, for most of us here, the home rolling is just something to do to pass the time. And when someone in our little community has the means to build something to help another brother out he does so almost always without question.
I agree. My comments are only addressing a previous post regarding producing enough molds to get them consistently in the $50-$75 range. I think our points say the same thing - this is too small of a demand to try to get at a low price via a higher production. The math doesn't work out. And when you try to make it work out, it's no longer fun.
Yes, my printer and CNC equipment are just things I do away from cigars... well now they kind of complement each other unexpectedly. Some if it is more than a hobby, because I also work on embedded computer systems, and some of it is just printing off fun stuff. I don't mind making molds for friends for consumable costs, but I wouldn't try to make a profit out of it. Maybe some scrap plastic would be nice from unused portions of rolls, but that's about it. Once you try to make a profit you lose use of your machinery for your stuff unless you do purchase a new rig, which then puts you right back into the math equations again... or you have to go and buy a $200 motherboard because yours fried.
 
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