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mercop

mercop

Cigar Daddy
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Well, trying to make it lucrative.

Actually I was going to post about my range smoke. I am pretty knew to cigars but working hard at my education. I picked up a bundle of "1876" cigars at CI for $30. Gotta tell ya that the draw is awesome and they are consistant. I am interested is someone who knows WTF is up smoking one telling me if I am out of my tree on this one or it is a good cheap smoke.
 
R

RonC

www.igloodor.com
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if you enjoy smoking it, then it is a good cigar. dont pay attention to magazine articles or somebody elses opinion. its your taste buds and your $. back about 7 or 8 years ago, a friend who worked at JR Cigars came up with 100's of the original blend La Finca. Many made fun of those cigars, but I thought that they were great. These cigars had to be about 10 years old, and I loved them. not bad for under 1 buck.
 
smokinghole

smokinghole

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So you're in York. I'll be landing in Hershey soon at least for a little while. Maybe we could go to the range sometime while I'm on a month long vacation. It'd be great for me because I don't know where the ranges are around that area.

So does your business have any need for a bomb dude?:stretchgr
 
99TRILLS

99TRILLS

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Do u think the design of the SERPA holster is to blame for a large number of Negligent discharges, or is it more a case of lack of training with the equipment. I personally have not had an issue with mine but also have not drawn in a high stress situation. Curious to know whatcha think of them or what a better positive retention system would be. Thanks in advance.
 
apnutter

apnutter

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Love my Serpas! I believe it's lack of training. I wear a triple retention on duty which is basically a standard Serpa with a hood and have drawn it in high stress situations and never had an issue. I also where one in plain clothes and never had an issue. The Serpa is one of the most widely carried holster for law enforcement for a reason.
 
LikeAPuma

LikeAPuma

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99TRILLS said:
Do u think the design of the SERPA holster is to blame for a large number of Negligent discharges, or is it more a case of lack of training with the equipment. I personally have not had an issue with mine but also have not drawn in a high stress situation. Curious to know whatcha think of them or what a better positive retention system would be. Thanks in advance.
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I've used mine without problem in both Iraq & during police work, never experienced an issue.

As for any specialized training needed, I haven't noticed. If anything, I feel like it leaves your trigger finger perfectly positioned to be resting on the frame.

For retention, I've seen some holsters that are more secure, but the sacrifice is a slower draw. I've ran after & wrestled with folks & never had a concern about it falling out on its own (grabby hands are always a concern in those situations though lol)
 
mdwest

mdwest

BoM Feb 13 - BoY 2013
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99TRILLS said:
Do u think the design of the SERPA holster is to blame for a large number of Negligent discharges
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Yes. It is a flawed design.

or is it more a case of lack of training with the equipment.
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In addition to having a substantial design flaw, it functions differently than other holsters, which creates a training issue as well.




Personally.. I swore them off less than a year after they first showed up on the market.. and do not recommend them to anyone under any circumstances...

there are plenty of other options out there.. at the same price point.. that dont have the same liability associated with them, havent been banned by public ranges, banned by law enforcement agencies for off duty carry, havent been banned by contract security firms, etc..etc..etc...
 
apnutter

apnutter

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mwlabel said:
apnutter said:
The Serpa is one of the most widely carried holster for law enforcement for a reason.
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Yes, because they're inexpensive.

There's a reason major training facilities have banned Serpas all together.
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I guess to each their own. 99% of full time law enforcement are given a uniform allowance and most officers choose their holster which is purchased for them. I chose mine based on retention and durability, not price.
 
mdwest

mdwest

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99%? Where did that number come from? I worked for a county, a municipal, and a federal agency during my cop years... All three had uniform allotments.. And all three of them had specific restrictions... At no time was my off duty holster the same as the duty holster that was issued, to include the times I worked plain clothes...

A simple google of the words "Serpa banned" will tell you all you ever needed to know about agencies specifically telling their officers that they are an absolute no-go...

If price is not an issue? How is a Serpa more durable than a quality kydex holster made by a reputable manufacturer? And how does it offer better retention than other level 2 or level 3 retention holsters?

Do you train people in the use of firearms? If so, how many? And where did you get your certification? What qualifies your opinion?

Not being argumentative with any of the above... All sincere questions...

FLETC, where 90 federal agencies send their officers to train banned them (among many other places).. They've also been banned by the IDPA.. One of the largest competitive shooting associations in the world... So why do you think it is a superior system in any way?
 
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LikeAPuma

LikeAPuma

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mdwest said:
Do you train people in the use of firearms? If so, how many? And where did you get your certification? What qualifies your opinion?
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I didn't realize we had to be qualified by a law enforcement agency in order to offer our opinion, which is what was asked. Having successfully used a serpa holster on more than a few occasions, I was simply offering an opinion.

I've trained a platoon's worth of Military Police soldiers & an entire district of Iraqi Police (a lost cause from the beginning, they don't really count). I don't claim to be an expert, or anything high speed. I always went by the mindset of "do what feels comfortable", as long as they remain safe. Haven't had an issue to date.

Rather than ranting about a system & those who use that system, maybe offer what you prefer.
 
mdwest

mdwest

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Who said law enforcement agency?

How about the NRA? Or Gunsite? Or anyone else that runs a reputable, nationally, or internationally accepted program?

Training Army MPs and Iraqis.. Did your train them specifically in holster drills? And if so, how many were using serpas? How many were using other options? What were the other options? What were the comparative failure rates? Were there differences in draw times? What about first shot accuracy and speed? How many negligent discharges were experienced? What was the determined cause?

The point is.. Where you draw your basis of opinion matters... ESPECIALLY when it comes to things that can cause people injury and death...

I might have an opinion on how to be an MP.. Having never been one in my life.. Do you think it proper for me to attempt to influence how a young MP fresh out of AIT do his job? Is my background as a civilian cop sufficient? Are the jobs exactly the same?

Frankly, doing what's comfortable is not the same thing as doing what's right.. And again.. We're talking about something that has been involved in NUMEROUS incidents where people have been injured....

If there was ever a reason for ranting ... It would be at times when people who have not established a background that let's you why their opinion should be valued or not, make recommendations that have the potential to seriously injure others...

If an opinion is qualified.. By all means.. Share it.. Let's all have a broad based debate and hear the merits and issues on all sides..

But when it comes to people shooting themselves.. Which the serpa has quite a reputation for (among other thing..).. You're right.. I don't think everyone gets a free shot at making open recommendations without first qualifying the information and letting us know why it is valued (information cones from a reputable training institution or reputable trainer, link to an article from a reputable source, significant personal experience, etc etc)...

Gun recommendations are not like cigar recommendations where someone gives bad info and you end up paying $25 for a Gurkha that sucks... Bad gun info can hurt people. And should not be tolerated.. Ever...

Regarding my recommendations... Check out threads in this room over the past 2+ years... There are several of them readily available...

If you want a specific recommendation related to the serpa.. It's already been given... Don't use one... 90 federal agencies aren't allowed to train with them.. IDPA shooters can't use then.. Countless private training companies have banned them... Numerous major law enforcement agencies have banned them... Pick a level 2 or 3 retention holster (if that's what you're looking for) made by a reputable manufacturer that is of quality design.. That is not banned everywhere... There are hundreds of options...
 
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