Kitty litter crystals

[N2Advnture]

They are definitely "similar" (ie made of silica) but the KL was engineered and intended as a dessicant while the RH beads were spefically engineered to both absorb & release vater vapor to maintain a prescribed RH level.

The difference is in the performance, ease of use and the quality of the material (the RH beads are medical grade).

I tried following the "seasoning" procedure on 5 different experiments with the KL and couldn't get them to hold the desired level of RH. It was either too high or fluctuated too much for my liking for long term storage.

~M

 

[Wasch_24]

They are definitely "similar" (ie made of silica) but the KL was engineered and intended as a dessicant while the RH beads were spefically engineered to both absorb & release vater vapor to maintain a prescribed RH level.

The difference is in the performance, ease of use and the quality of the material (the RH beads are medical grade).

I tried following the "seasoning" procedure on 5 different experiments with the KL and couldn't get them to hold the desired level of RH. It was either too high or fluctuated too much for my liking for long term storage.

~M

What is the basis of these statements Mark?

Serious question.

Are you saying that as a result of your personal research or is it documented somewhere.

Specifically the statement about the RH beads...is this in writing somewhere?...was a scientific study performed?...or is that just based on what we have all been told through the years?

I'm not trying to be a prick (some say it happens naturally :rofl: ) but we have all seen these statements about the "RH beads" and I don't know of anyone who has produced or seen some sort of documentation to support them.

The KL has the ingredients clearly listed...silica sand, oxygen, and water.

I know you did a lot of research for 'The Puck', did you ever find any sort of written explanation or demonstration of any specific testing that supports the "pre-conditioned" statement? I'm not doubting it exists...I am really interested in seeing or hearing about it.

 

[N2Advnture]

Since the intended use of the KL is for absorbtion of cat urine, it is a reasonable expectation that the pourous silica material used has been designed to absorb moisture and that a company wouldn't encur the added expense of engineering it to both absorb and release moisture. This fact is evident by the need for people to "condition" it themselves. (evident by the cost of the product)

I did not acquire any documentation for the KL but is also a reasonable expectation that a company wouldn't go to the added expense to use a medical grade product to be used as kitty litter. (also evident by the cost of the product)

In regards to the RH beads, the company that manufactures the RH beads did so with the sole intention of using them for the purpose of precisely regulating RH. They weren't growing lemons and then figured out that you can make lemonade. (This info is per several phone conversations with representatives from the company.)

Also, the RH beads (that Heartfelt sells and that are used in the Puck) are superior to even other RH beads in their material and in efficiently they maintain levels set between 60-70% RH. Other similar media test better outside of this range and are also less expensive.

I guess my "short" answer would be no, I don't have a color brochure that says "The RH beads were XYZ" but the info was per phone conversations with representatives from the company that manufactures them.

Likewise, I think we would be hard pressed to find a KL brochure that says "It's a great Kitty Litter that will also maintain desired RH levels in your cigar humidors."

~M

 

[Wasch_24]

Proof is in the pudding I guess then.



Either way, people should just use what works for them and buy what they feel comfortable buying. :thumbsup:

 

[avid toker]

Why the heck would the manufacturers of KL care about maintaining a pre-set RH level in the litter box? C'mon, all they'd care about is absorbing the cat piss quickly and reigning in odor as well.

That's another question I have. When opening my humis I'm always greeted by that wonderful barnyard smell and fragrant smell of the cigars. Anyone using KL notice that odor has disappeared?

 

[Wasch_24]

Why the heck would the manufacturers of KL care about maintaining a pre-set RH level in the litter box? C'mon, all they'd care about is absorbing the cat piss quickly and reigning in odor as well.

That's another question I have. When opening my humis I'm always greeted by that wonderful barnyard smell and fragrant smell of the cigars. Anyone using KL notice that odor has disappeared?

That's a good question.

Next time I see Reid, CigarNV, I will ask him.

Although, if the silica is absorbing scent then the RH beads would too...they are both the same material.

I would think the KL keeps the litter box from smelling because the scent is in the moisture.

I have two cats and there is no way I would use this KL. I just don't see how it can combat the smell or absorb the moisture from the piss and feces fast enough.

 

[N2Advnture]

One thing that I have never seen pointed is that while the KL may be a silica product, there are TONS of variations (densities) of silica. Kind of like the difference between 8ct, 10ct, 14ct, 22ct gold...that density differs greatly which is what dictates the characteristics and intended use. I'm no engineer (nor do I have the documentation on the KL), so I can speak to the specific differences to the silica material used in the KL vs. the RH beads but bases on price & the user input required and the performance that results, it is a reasonable assumption that while they are both silica based, they are completely different in function.

 

[Wasch_24]

One thing that I have never seen pointed is that while the KL may be a silica product, there are TONS of variations (densities) of silica. Kind of like the difference between 8ct, 10ct, 14ct, 22ct gold...that density differs greatly which is what dictates the characteristics and intended use. I'm no engineer (nor do I have the documentation on the KL), so I can speak to the specific differences to the silica material used in the KL vs. the RH beads but bases on price & the user input required and the performance that results, it is a reasonable assumption that while they are both silica based, they are completely different in function.

CigarNV and Xrundog's findings are contradictory to this though Mark.

 

[Jwrussell]

LMAO, no. If you are being serious Shane, check out hte ingredients above. There is a version of this KL with beads for smell, but those are NOT the ones you want. The version everyone is using are just large, round balls of silica. There's nothing in their make up to affect smell.

Mark, did they ever mention if there was more ingredients than what is listed for the KL? I'm just curious if it's an added ingredient or a process that makes the beads you use better hold a certain RH. Not asking for the ingredient (if there is one) if it's propriatary (sp?) information. Just curious.

 

[N2Advnture]

CigarNV and Xrundog's findings are contradictory to this though Mark.

To which part?

 

[Wasch_24]

To which part?

Sorry meant to quote and highlight...

"they are completely different in function."

 

[N2Advnture]

Ok, maybe function was the wrong choice of word. How about completely different in the engineered function?

 

[N2Advnture]

If the only ingredients are silica sand (SiO2), oxygen, and water...then yes, they do not contain the exact same ingredients. There is one ingredient that does not exist in the KL that does in the RH beads.

~M

 

[Headbanger]

Guys, I think Todd is right here and so is Mark on the quality of KL. The KL is not scientifically engineered to hold a set point, not absorb or desorb RH at a sertain level and not medical grade etc. But seems to hold a set point for me that is 67-68RH. That is all I care about. All the other thought and munitia is just that. Will these hold up vs beads, I don't know either. But KL for about $2 a pound I can pick up for free vs cigar beads that cost about $30 a pound plus $5 to ship is a value to me.

 

[Wasch_24]

See, that's my issue here. What engineering?

All we have ever been told is that they are engineered...without an explanation of what that is exactly.

I mean, you got a patent...if the process for the RH beads is patented couldn't they provide that documentation?

I could tell you my belly button lint is engineered to insulate at 72° but why would you believe me unless I could show you proof, i.e. a description of the process? :rofl:

In reality most people never needed that "proof" because it just works (the RH beads). But now, some are discovering that water, silica sand, and oxygen beads work very similarly.

 

[Wasch_24]

If the only ingredients are silica sand (SiO2), oxygen, and water...then yes, they do not contain the exact same ingredients. There is one ingredient that does not exist in the KL that does in the RH beads.

~M

How do you know?

Have you seen a list of the ingredients? I haven't.

Has anyone?

 

[Wasch_24]

Guys, I think Todd is right here and so is Mark on the quality of KL. The KL is not scientifically engineered to hold a set point, not absorb or desorb RH at a sertain level and not medical grade etc. But seems to hold a set point for me that is 67-68RH. That is all I care about. All the other thought and munitia is just that. Will these hold up vs beads, I don't know either. But KL for about $2 a pound I can pick up for free vs cigar beads that cost about $30 a pound plus $5 to ship is a value to me.

It is weird that your RH is 67-68% when Xrundog and CigarNV have results closer to 64-65%

Although it all depends on the accuracy of the hygrometer.


I have read people having the same differences with RH beads...like CWS.

 

[N2Advnture]

How do you know?
Have you seen a list of the ingredients? I haven't.
Has anyone?

I do know what is in the RH beads and Headbanger provided a list of ingredients to the KL. Unless he left something out, then there is an additional ingredient in the RH beads that does not exist in the KL. (per the MSDS sheet on the RH beads)

~M

 

[Headbanger]

Like I said also about you Mark and Klugs (and maybe Shane too), if I had your stash, I probably would only use beads to be more sure and Oasis or S&FG systems with them. For most folks, KL should be fine.

Todd, I think this is the variable in KL you may not get in beads. I also messed up at first and spritzed the KL, so my water content was higher. So they set at higher RH. Again, I don't know and don't care. What I do know is they work really well at holding where I want them. If the KL was the same price of even 1/2 the price, I would re think. BUT they are 1/15 of the price here folks.

 

[Wasch_24]

Can we see it?


Just to be clear, I am not trying to be a pain...nor am I trying to cause any frustration...these are sincere questions and it may very well be possible there is no "final answer" but it sure is fun talking about it. :thumbsup: